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Rudy in '08 = DEFEAT! Here's why (Vanity)
Sorry for the vanity, but.....

Posted on 11/03/2004 2:51:49 PM PST by BallparkBoys

Ok,

First off, sorry for the Vanity. And this is my first ever new thread. I would be interested in your opinions on this.

Nominating Rudy Guliani in '08 would be almost certain failure for the GOP. Tuesday's election screamed few things to me: CONSERVATISM!!! MORAL VALUES, and ANTI GAY-MARRIAGE. The voting block that delivered the vote most consistently for W was Evangelical Christians. Fully 25% of all Ohio voters put themselves in that category, and they voted 3-1 for Bush. Without that block, Bush loses the election. Evangelicals were driven to the polls by 1. a man of character, 2. the chances for some decent Supreme Court Justices, and 3. the referendums on gay marriage. Having the gay marriage issue on the ballot in Ohio probably won the election for W.

1. People can see that Bush is more a man of his word than Kerry is. He says things that he believes rather things that people want to hear. Kerry is just the opposite.

2. With the weak-kneed RINO's in the Senate, its no telling who we can get in there as judges, but it SHOULD be better than what Kerry would have given us.

3. Bans on gay marriage have ALWAYS gone 60% + (dont know the final results in Oregon) in EVERY state its been voted on. There is WIDESPREAD support for bans even in the most liberal states.

Ok, so can we agree that the electorate showed a swing to the right and did so emphatically. They voted in new Rep Senators, House members and reelected our Conservative President. So the question is: WHY GO BACK TO THE LEFT WHEN THE PEOPLE TELL YOU TO GO RIGHT???

Rudy, while a good executive and a fine politician is PRO ABORTION, PRO GAY MARRIAGE, and cheated on his wife. In 1992 GHW Bush pissed off his base with his tax issue and the conservatives stayed home. BUSH LOST! In 2000, W's drunk driving unfortunately (and wrongly in my opinion) drove the Christian conservatives to stay home, thus losing the popular vote and creating Florida's day in the spotlight. In 2004, Bush runs on a -lower tax, faith based initative, Pro life, pro gay marriage ban, man of virtue and faith- platform and wins by 3.5 MILLION votes.

Why would we want to turn back to the Rockefeller-Republican days of the 70's???

Govern and run on a platform of tax reform, tort reform, SOLID judges, PRO LIFE, PRO GAY MARRIAGE BAN, and watch the people come out in droves. When Hillary tacks to the center, we dont need to follow!!!

Your comments are welcome


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 08; conservative; election; guliani

1 posted on 11/03/2004 2:51:49 PM PST by BallparkBoys
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To: BallparkBoys

No, I'm thinkin' if Hillary gets the DNC nod in 08, we need to put Condy Rice up there, and if she doesn't win, we'll play the race card!!!


2 posted on 11/03/2004 2:52:45 PM PST by mrplind (If it's not a baby, then you're not pregnant!)
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To: BallparkBoys
First off, sorry for the Vanity.

Are not.

3 posted on 11/03/2004 2:53:23 PM PST by Fatalis (The Libertarian Party is to politics as Esperanto is to linguistics.)
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To: BallparkBoys

McCain/Guliani will be the 2008 ticket.

I don't like it too much, and it is the day after the election in 2004, but that's how I see it coming down.


4 posted on 11/03/2004 2:53:46 PM PST by RWR8189 (Its Morning in America Again!)
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To: BallparkBoys

nutshell analysis: rudy won't make thru the primaries; evanglicals own the process and rudy is way to pro abortion and he knows this.


5 posted on 11/03/2004 2:53:48 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: BallparkBoys

The last thing the Republican Party needs to do now is offer up a pro-abortion, anti-gun RINO.

You want to see the Conservative base sit out an election? Keep this crap up.


6 posted on 11/03/2004 2:54:07 PM PST by Prime Choice (Laura Bush is like everyone's sweetheart. Teresa Heinz-Kerry is like everyone's mother-in-law.)
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To: BallparkBoys
Watch out Rudy...
7 posted on 11/03/2004 2:54:17 PM PST by traumer
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To: mrplind

And I have a slogan.

"Its a white house blackout cuz they gotta keep the blackout the white house."


8 posted on 11/03/2004 2:54:21 PM PST by cripplecreek (We've turned the corner and we're not smokin crack.)
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To: BallparkBoys

I totally agree.

Guillianni as a social liberal may "sell" in NYC, but he'll fail miserably in the heartland of America.


9 posted on 11/03/2004 2:54:57 PM PST by AC in KC
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To: BallparkBoys

Sorry, but it is way too early for that and I have not gotten enough sleep to think about it. Right now I am just deeply grateful to Rudy for tirelessly campaigning for our president. He is a good man. We can discuss his presidential qualities later.


10 posted on 11/03/2004 2:54:58 PM PST by Capt. Jake (Tar Heels against Edwards)
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To: BallparkBoys

I think Rudy needs to run against Hillary when she comes up for re-election to the Senate in 2006. He would do much better running in a more liberal state than trying to convince conservatives nationally to support him.


11 posted on 11/03/2004 2:55:01 PM PST by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: BallparkBoys

You're right.


12 posted on 11/03/2004 2:55:13 PM PST by Valpal1 (The constitution is going to be amended, the only question is by whom?)
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To: RWR8189
McCain/Guliani will be the 2008 ticket.

McVain was the co-author of the unconstitutional CFR, defender of John F. Kerry, and overall schmuck. The base won't forget that...ever.

13 posted on 11/03/2004 2:55:41 PM PST by Prime Choice (Laura Bush is like everyone's sweetheart. Teresa Heinz-Kerry is like everyone's mother-in-law.)
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To: BallparkBoys

Gosh you are a glutton for punishment? I need to get over the '04, take a few days breather, relax, ya know?


14 posted on 11/03/2004 2:56:06 PM PST by My back yard (Thanks to God, and President Bush.)
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To: BallparkBoys
sorry for the Vanity

Really honest people don't apologize ~before~ they do something.

Lay off on 08. Have we ~nothing~ to do now for the next 4 years but campaign for 08?

15 posted on 11/03/2004 2:56:45 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: SuziQ

I wanna see a Condoleeza vs hillary smackdown. lol


16 posted on 11/03/2004 2:57:07 PM PST by My back yard (Thanks to God, and President Bush.)
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To: BallparkBoys

McCain is probably in the best position right now for 2008 except for his age may be a factor. He has the MSM in his pocket and he does have some devoted followers. I am not one but there are people who like him.


17 posted on 11/03/2004 2:57:16 PM PST by Moconservative
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To: My back yard

I agree, I'm giving election 08 a few weeks to simmer. Besides my heart can't take any more stress right now.


18 posted on 11/03/2004 2:58:21 PM PST by cripplecreek (We've turned the corner and we're not smokin crack.)
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To: BallparkBoys

I will not vote for Rudy. The Republicans will ignore their gun owning Christian base at their own peril, Red Queen or not.


19 posted on 11/03/2004 2:58:57 PM PST by glock rocks ( W 1)
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To: RWR8189
McCain/Guliani will be the 2008 ticket.

Then we will lose the White House in 2008.

Rudy is no conservative and McCain has offended so many conservatives with his flip-flopping back and forth across the aisle (does that man have ANY core principles!?) that he can't win with Republicans.

You win by LEADING. The cause, right now, is conservatism. We need a conservative leader not a mushy moderate or a liberal. Bush is just barely conservative enough, especially on most social issues, to have enlarged his base. We need MORE conservatism, not less. If not, we'll lose.

20 posted on 11/03/2004 2:59:08 PM PST by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: AC in KC

Exactly. That's why he'd make a good Gov of NY, or better yet a Senator after ousting Hillary in 2 yrs. His unacceptability to social conservatives would be no different than Dem refusal to accept Sen Nelson of Nebraska or Bayh of Indiana.

Giuliani's problem is that he isn't even a social moderate, as often labeled by the press, but instead is a bonafide liberal on social and cultural issues.


21 posted on 11/03/2004 2:59:35 PM PST by Aetius
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To: BallparkBoys

It's no secret that social conservatives/Christian conservatives, do not support pro-choice candidates. And the major reason people supported PresBush, was for his moral stance on the issues and his efforts in the WoT. So I wouldn't consider Rudi Giuliani, or another social liberal, a good candidate for the 2008 GOP nomination.


22 posted on 11/03/2004 2:59:53 PM PST by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: cripplecreek
"Its a white house blackout cuz they gotta keep the blackout the white house."

Your slogan sounds like you HAVE been smokin crack!

I believe that the first black President will be a Republican, and dittos for the first woman President. Republicans will have NO problem voting for a black man, or a woman (or a black woman, for that matter) who holds the majority of their views. That's why race hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will never be President, and women like Geraldine Ferraro couldn't do it, and neither will Hillary. They are lightning rods, and are WAY too liberal and radical feminist for most in this country.

23 posted on 11/03/2004 3:00:12 PM PST by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we are Americans!!!!)
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To: mrplind

Dr.Rice is a great advisor to PresBush, but has absolutely no political credentials to speak of. No political chops to speak of either.


24 posted on 11/03/2004 3:01:39 PM PST by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: SuziQ

My posting was meant to be a parody comment.

Actually the first variation I heard of it came from Alan Keyes when he was running for president.


25 posted on 11/03/2004 3:03:44 PM PST by cripplecreek (We've turned the corner and we're not smokin crack.)
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To: gobucks

I have long felt the same way, but I'd offer you one caveat to consider. Suppose W. gets his THREE SC nominations confirmed,a nd all of his appellate court hjudges through as well. The court system is then basically in good hands for the next 20 years, so Rudy can't do damage. Under that scenario, especially if there is no other strong GOP candidate to take on Hillary, the conservative right might be willing to go along with Rudy for President, especially with a strong moral values VP choice..


26 posted on 11/03/2004 3:04:42 PM PST by ken5050
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To: everyone

Oh come on - while I'm not particular fan of pro-choice pro-gun control candidates, Guiliani would crush the opposition.

You want to rally the republicans? Hillary Clinton people. We could run a chimp against her and the republican base would come flying out against her.

Not only that, Guiliani isn't a liberal-republican... his more of a libertarian-republican. People like Olympia Snowe are liberal republicans... they puss out on tax relief, on any strong international stances, they compromise and they moderate their views.

Guiliani and those like him are HARD CORE people, no compromise, extremism, but they do have some stances that are not conservative. That will completely take out the liberal northeast, BIG TIME, not just NY. He may lose a couple southern states, but certainly not enough to lose, and CERTAINLY he would pick off several states (including CA I believe) that would make up for any small loss.

It would be a landslide in the GE people.

Perhaps he won't make it out of the primary, but still, I think he should be strongly considered. Very strong republican, with a couple non-conservative stances.

But if he doesn't get it, I am a Romney man.

Matt


27 posted on 11/03/2004 3:07:22 PM PST by Caracarn978
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To: BallparkBoys
Why are you posting this nonsense today? Rudy Guiliani did a great service for George W. Bush in helping him get elected, yet you're jumping offside trying to take him down a notch.

I resent your vanity posting. It's stupid.

28 posted on 11/03/2004 3:07:31 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: BallparkBoys

Why post this now? Let us enjoy winning yesterday and forget about 2008 for awhile. I was part of a group of people that the 2000 campaign never ended and I sure could care less right now who we nominate in 2008 -- it is too far away and a lot can change.

Do you think that everyone can cut the crap on who we nominate in 2008 for awhile?


29 posted on 11/03/2004 3:07:51 PM PST by PhiKapMom
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To: BallparkBoys
Giuliani can never be nominated in today's Republican party, which is thoroughly conservative at the grass roots level. If that worries you than you can rest easy. It won't happen.

It's a shame that he's so liberal because otherwise he would make an excellent candidate. He's certainly a top-notch executive.

30 posted on 11/03/2004 3:19:39 PM PST by Batrachian
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To: BallparkBoys

I'm already planning "Duke/Powell '08" bumper stickers.

(That's David Duke and Colin Powell.)

Seriously, not a Rudy fan myself- hey, I'm from (upstate) NY- I know how far left you have to run to get elected in this state- take a look at JFKerry and Chucky Schumer's margins of victory here. I really can't see the RNC going with Giuliani. Even with him on the ticket, having been a popular and successful NYC mayor, the Libs downstate are never going to go republican in numbers significant enough to make NY a red state.
If we can get the constitution amended in time, how about:
"Schwarzenegger/Rice '08"
I also think, when Dick Cheney retires due to ill health in the next year or two, Bush should appoint either Condi or Colin as VP. That would immediately tear a huge, bleeding hole in the democrat base, and expose the rest of the "black community" as the socialist demagogues they truly are.


31 posted on 11/03/2004 3:53:45 PM PST by Ostlandr (Nationalist, small-r republican, fiscal conservative, social liberal, pagan. NOT a Bush partisan!)
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To: BallparkBoys
Long before September 11th, Rudy proved to be an amazing leader. NYC under Dinkins needed to climb up to wallow in its own sewers. Rudy fixed that in a year.

He saw the 1993 WTC bombing (happened under Dinkins) and had the vision to see we needed the Office of Emergency Management despite the press and the liberals hammering him for wasting time and money to create it. That office and its planning was at the center of NYC's response to September 11th.

The RINO nonsense you hear is a myth. If you need proof, if Rudy was really a liberal Republican the press would worship him like McCain instead of calling him a Nazi. They only start calling him a liberal when the topic shifts to 2008.

You also have to remember that Rudy was Mayor of a city that went for Kerry by a 4 to 1 margin. Rudy may not crusade against abortion or gay marriage, but that's a far cry from supporting it like a liberal would. Those views comes from a libertarian philosophy not a liberal one.

I watched Rudy govern for 8 years, trust me, he has conservative values. If you had to listen to all the press conferences where Rudy verbally smacked around liberals with victim complexes you would understand. Let me paraphrase a real example: "Look I'm very sorry that her son died, but the police officers he was shooting at have mothers too. Instead of blaming the police maybe she should think about what role she played in raising a son who felt it was OK to steal other people's property and try and kill police officers." (Honest, this is what we have to deal with in NY.)

Rudy could absolutely win a national election.
32 posted on 11/03/2004 4:06:31 PM PST by Ragnorak
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To: BallparkBoys

The Republican party needs to get rid of the RINOs and the Neo-cons.


33 posted on 11/03/2004 4:07:24 PM PST by John0309
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To: BallparkBoys
Not only did good ol' Rudy cheat on his wife, he tried to move her into Gracie Mansion while his wife and his children were still in residence there!

We've all seen what happens when you say that character doesn't matter. You get the like of Clinton and his ilk. If Hillary decides to run in 2008 how about a GOP candidate who's every bit as smart as she is. What about Condoleeza Rice?

34 posted on 11/03/2004 4:14:07 PM PST by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: texgal

John Kasich...good Ohio republican. socially and economically conservative with roots in blue collar Pennsylvania.


35 posted on 11/03/2004 4:18:16 PM PST by BuckeyeGOP
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To: BuckeyeGOP

Thanks, don't know much about him but will try to find out what I can. I still like Condi though!


36 posted on 11/03/2004 4:25:04 PM PST by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: Capt. Jake
Sorry, but it is way too early for that and I have not gotten enough sleep to think about it. Right now I am just deeply grateful to Rudy for tirelessly campaigning for our president. He is a good man. We can discuss his presidential qualities later

I can DEFINITELY agree with that.....I just wanted to "nip this Rudy thing in the bud" as Barn' would say.. :)

37 posted on 11/03/2004 5:30:21 PM PST by BallparkBoys
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To: PhiKapMom; sinkspur
"Why post this now"

You're both right....It IS too early to post this, but I just kept seeing his name posted over and over and started getting frustrated with that and wanted to keep the momentum that we established last night.

Last night was WONDERFUL, and we should bask in that right now....

38 posted on 11/03/2004 5:38:04 PM PST by BallparkBoys
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To: ken5050

"Under that scenario, especially if there is no other strong GOP candidate to take on Hillary, the conservative right might be willing to go along with Rudy for President, especially with a strong moral values VP choice.."

I see your point, but the primaries simply have too many 'uncomprimisers' that would prevent him from clinching a nomination. There attitude would be if the GOP can't get an electable true blue conservative on the ticket, that's God's will...

Trying to 'adjust' the ticket simply to defeat Hillary would never be an option. Besides, remember that from one perspective, Bill Clinton's election was the best thing that ever happenend to the GOP ... we got both houses b/c of him. Can you imagine what would be the benefits to the GOP if Hillary actually acquired power and then began to swing it around??? After, she was holding the wooden stick below the dummys head all along anyway...


39 posted on 11/03/2004 5:38:32 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: cripplecreek
My posting was meant to be a parody comment.

Just a suggestion; next time use the" /sarcasm" comment at the end of the post, so no one will mis-interpret. ;o)

40 posted on 11/03/2004 6:21:10 PM PST by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we are Americans!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
Rudy Guiliani did a great service for George W. Bush in helping him get elected, yet you're jumping offside trying to take him down a notch.

The battle for the 2008 GOP standard bearer began yesterday. That abortion-loving gun-grabber needs to be taken down SEVERAL notches.

41 posted on 11/04/2004 10:43:46 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: BallparkBoys

I never vote for liberals. I will never vote for Rudy.


42 posted on 11/04/2004 10:45:37 AM PST by Protagoras (Hillary Clinton, the potential Hitler of our time, is now in position to take over the country.)
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To: RWR8189
McCain/Guliani will be the 2008 ticket.

I will never vote for such a ticket. Never, no matter who is running against them. Never.

And any freepers who don't like it if it comes to pass can kiss my kiester.

43 posted on 11/04/2004 10:48:40 AM PST by Protagoras (Hillary Clinton, the potential Hitler of our time, is now in position to take over the country.)
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To: jmc813
Sorry, bub. Rudy is going to be very prominent in GOP politics for the foreseeable future.

You may not like it, but it's true, nonetheless.

44 posted on 11/04/2004 11:29:17 AM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: sinkspur
Sorry, bub. Rudy is going to be very prominent in GOP politics for the foreseeable future.

Well, all of the pundits were predicting battle for the future of the GOP following this election. I suppose you guys on the moderate/liberal end of the party will be promoting guys like Rudy, while conservatives will be pushing guys like Sanford and Owens. Should be interesting seeing this play out.

45 posted on 11/04/2004 11:43:26 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: sinkspur
Sorry, bub. Rudy is going to be very prominent in GOP politics for the foreseeable future.

All of the pundits predicted a battle for the future of the GOP following this past election. I'm sure the moderate/liberal wing of the party will be heavily promoting Rudy. I'll be with the conservatives in pushing guys like Owens and Sanford. Should be interesting watching this play out.

46 posted on 11/04/2004 11:45:29 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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