ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IN THE NEWS TODAY

In the interest of saving space and because every newspaper or website you read has a story about illegal immigration, here is a review of just some of the headlines from various sources. A few complain of ALL the threads posted on this subject, perhaps this will satisfy them. Nothing has yet, no source, no conservative voice, but we'll try here anyway. JAS

More than 100 illegal immigrants are at large in New Zealand, New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters says.

In Parliament on Wednesday Mr Peters questioned how the Government had "allowed" 700 illegal immigrants to get into New Zealand despite having false passports or after destroying or losing travel documents.

In a written answer to Mr Peter's question, Immigration Minister Paul Swain said 303 of the 700 were granted refugee status, 58 still had an undecided claim with the Refugee Status Appeals Authority, 108 had left the country. A further 116 were still in New Zealand with an appeal or application pending or had been granted residence under different policies rather than on refugee status, or they had a temporary permit.

"We do not know who they are, what threat they pose or even where they are located - this is simply not good enough," he said in a statement. ---snip---

That's the question posed by Coloradans testifying before the House State, Veterans & Military Affairs Committee on Tuesday on Bill 1271, Defend Colorado Now.

To those representing the illegal-alien lobby whose agenda they support (Catholic Charities, ACLU, and federally funded Denver Health Clinic), Representatives Paul Weissmann, Ann Ragsdale, Terrance Carroll, Fran Coleman, Rafael Gallegos, and Nancy Todd were very gracious, approving and respectful.

But citizens making the trip to the capitol waiting their turn to speak their designated 3-5 minutes before the committee experienced a distinctly different reception. Patiently waiting their turn for their allotted 3-5 minutes to ask their legislators to reserve the services funded with their tax dollars to citizens and legal residents. They knew the 6 Democrats on the committee opposed the bill, but nonetheless expected the respectful treatment due to all citizens.

What a shock those citizens experienced! Representatives Weissmann, Ragsdale, Carroll, Coleman, Gallegos and Todd were jumping up from their seats, playing with their computers, talking on cell phones and passing notes like ill-mannered school children. They repeatedly interrupted citizens' testimony with "don't say the same things we've already heard from others," although that "rule" wasn't applied to their pro-illegal alien allies. Nor was their disrespectful behavior limited to citizens; they were equally rude and obnoxious to HB 1271 author Rep. Schultheis.---SNIP

House decries border security, lack of funding WASHINGTON - Democratic and Republican House members found common ground Thursday in decrying the state of security on the nation's borders - particularly with Mexico - and criticizing President...

Death worshippers march for faith MEXICO CITY - Hundreds of Mexican devotees of Saint Death - a quasi-Catholic faith that worships the skeletal figure of death - marched through downtown Mexico City yesterday to demand respect for...

900 border watchers now expected Nearly twice as many people as originally planned are expected to converge on Cochise County next month for a volunteer border patrol, organizers of the upcoming Minuteman Project said yesterday....

Most migrants want to stay in U.S. WASHINGTON - A survey of mostly illegal Mexican immigrants found that a majority want to stay in the country permanently, but many more would be interested in signing up for temporary work permits...

Students get tips for staying safe on spring break Tish Staples would have liked the drunken driver who hit her parked car two weeks ago to see the spring break safety event at the University of Arizona yesterday afternoon. Wrecked cars littered...

Civilian border sweep opposed MONTERREY, Mexico - While the Mexican government develops plans for legal action against civilian patrols expected to descend on the Arizona-Mexico border in April, activists said yesterday they...

Plan would outlaw adoptions by migrants A state legislative committee yesterday embraced a plan that would deny illegal immigrants a myriad of public benefits, including the right to adopt a child, take adult literacy courses and use...

100-mph crash leaves 1 dead, 5 badly injured One person was killed and five others seriously injured when the driver of a car full of suspected illegal immigrants lost control of the vehicle on Interstate 10 yesterday, a state Department of...

Focus on border canyons nets 1,500 migrants in two weeks A U.S. Border Patrol operation targeting immigrant smuggling in rugged mountainous border canyons west of Nogales snared 1,500 illegal immigrants and $1.8 million worth of marijuana in two weeks....

Bill opposes day labor center aid PHOENIX - The Legislature is considering whether to prohibit cities and counties from putting taxpayer money into day labor centers that assist in finding work for illegal immigrants. Republican...

Bill would let workers sue if boss hires illegally Federal law prohibits the hiring of the thousands of foreign workers who sneak into the country each year, but many businesses turn to illegal immigrants to fill construction, agricultural and...

Scientist: Fiber-optic sensors could monitor border crossings Imagine an invisible line stretching along our 1,950-mile border with Mexico. Any pedestrian or vehicle that crosses the line trips a signal, alerting a monitor to the exact location. Such a...

11 suspected illegal entrants in custody Ten suspected illegal immigrants and their suspected smuggler were taken into custody yesterday at a Tucson motel. Virginia Kice, spokeswoman for federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement,...

Official wants to regulate 'Minutemen' A Cochise County supervisor is calling for enforcement of zoning codes that could affect a planned gathering of volunteers to patrol the U.S.-Mexican border, saying local government needs to...

Lay off fry bread, Indian writer urges ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The president of a national Indian rights organization has fired a hot, greasy little dough ball into the heart of Indian Country. In an essay in a national Indian newspaper,...

Az: Feds let migrants pile up in prisons at $28K a day Arizona taxpayers are paying more than $28,000 a day to incarcerate hundreds of illegal immigrants because the federal government hasn't filed the paperwork to deport them to Mexico, state prison...

Gang crackdown looks south APOPA, El Salvador - Shirtless, handcuffed and bathed in the searchlights of a helicopter, 14 newly arrested Central American gang members were lined up along a chain-link fence yesterday and...

Agent investigated in slaying Investigators say they haven't determined whether an illegal immigrant fatally shot by a U.S. Border Patrol agent Saturday was armed. Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Department Lt. Ruben Fuentes said...

Mexico approves expatriate voting MEXICO CITY - The lower house of Mexico's Congress overwhelmingly voted yesterday to approve voting by Mexicans living abroad in the country's 2006 presidential elections. The bill, which also...

Rain bane of migrants ALTAR, Son. - Black plastic garbage bags in Altar's central square go for up to 30 pesos, a day's wage in many parts of Mexico. Migrants in this small border town an hour south of Sasabe buy them,...

Yucatán guide for migrants riles lawmakers MERIDA, Mexico - Officials in a Mexican state have published their own 87-page handbook for potential migrants to the United States, adding fuel to an international debate over whether such guides...

Cops: Migrant uses towel rope to flee smugglers Tucson police and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are investigating a reported kidnapping of two suspected illegal immigrants that led one immigrant to climb out of a third-story window...

$200M gap in funds to teach kids English PHOENIX - The state needs to spend at least $200 million more than it does now to adequately educate students learning English, according to a state-commissioned study released yesterday. A panel of...

Mexico has first U.S.-style public trial MONTEMORELOS, Mexico - In a quiet courtroom in northern Mexico, a drunken-driving case is making history. Alejandro Santana, 19, is before a judge, fighting charges he was drunk and crashed his car,...

Tucson hospitals investing in Mexican health care NOGALES, Son. - Tucson hospital administrators say they have an innovative way to save money: spend money to upgrade the care available in Mexico. Health-care officials in Tucson and Nogales,...

Border seen as gateway to U.S. for al-Qaeda WASHINGTON - Rep. Solomon Ortiz of Texas has been sounding an alarm since last summer that al-Qaeda might exploit holes in the nation's southern border, and now the Department of Homeland Security...

Legal immigration linked to Social Security WASHINGTON - Congress could boost the financial health of Social Security by increasing the number of legal immigrants allowed into the country, said a report released yesterday. That change in...

State wants prison in Mexico PHOENIX - Some lawmakers want to explore the possibility of the state contracting to have a private prison built in Mexico to house illegal immigrants now incarcerated in Arizona. The idea was...

Smugglers' ruthlessness is growing worry for officers High on amphetamines, the smuggler and his girlfriend drove along a dark highway that wound north from the U.S.-Mexican border. They were looking for quick money and would be paid as soon as they...

Meth ban proposed for Navajo nation The Navajo Nation's governing council voted yesterday to outlaw methamphetamine, an addictive stimulant that has become a scourge for tribal police and health officials on the sprawling reservation....

Prop. 200 'unfair,' say young protesters About 15 students, calling themselves a "Chicano movement," walked through the rain yesterday afternoon to protest Proposition 200 and ask for peace in the world. Arnold Montiel III, 16, of...

House tightens rules on driver licenses WASHINGTON - The House acted yesterday on the first immigration bill on its agenda, voting to tighten rules for drivers licenses and to give immigration judges more power to reject those seeking...

House panel supports English-only bill PHOENIX - Supporters of a move to declare English the official language of Arizona scored a significant victory yesterday when legislation cleared a key panel of the House of Representatives. Six...

Bill could hurt border, environmentalists say A controversial bill that would bar illegal immigrants from getting drivers licenses contains vague language that could allow the U.S. Border Patrol to waive environmental laws along international...

Piñata-making fading in town where it was born ACOLMAN, Mexico - The piñata, one of Mexico's best-known traditions, is fading away in the town where it was born. Piñata workshops in the town of Acolman have dwindled in recent decades to two...

Gov. wants feds to pay $118M for migrant costs WASHINGTON - Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano wants the federal government to pay nearly $118 million owed the state for keeping thousands of illegal immigrants behind bars over the last 18 months....

Grants tied to immigration The U.S. Justice Department is offering grants for public education projects aimed at reducing immigration-related discrimination in employment. Applications for the grants, which range from...

House votes on driver license limit today WASHINGTON - Immigration advocates are drumming up opposition to a bill that would impose stricter rules for issuing drivers licenses to immigrants. The bill, known as the REAL ID Act, stands a good...

BUSH'S BUDGET PROPOSAL: Impact on Tucson Pima County taxpayers would have to shoulder all the local costs to detain illegal immigrants under President Bush's proposed budget. The budget, released yesterday, kills the $305 million...

Portrait of youths on border surprising Children in Arizona's border counties are more likely to be poor than their counterparts statewide but are less likely to be high school dropouts, according to a new report. The "Border Kids...

Stolen vehicles, ton of pot seized Border Patrol agents seized two stolen vehicles and more than a ton of marijuana on the Tohono O'odham Nation in Pinal County on Saturday. The seizures came around midday after agents on the ground...

Wounded migrant given $125,000 MEXICO CITY - A Mexican immigrant who was shot by a U.S. Border Patrol agent in 2002 has gotten $125,000 in compensation from the U.S. government, the Mexican government said yesterday. The...

Some drivers licenses lack citizenship proof to vote PHOENIX - If your Arizona drivers license was issued on or before Oct. 1, 1996, take other identification with you if you're registering to vote. Arizona drivers licenses can be used to prove...

UA, ASU urge safety during Son. trips University of Arizona and Arizona State University administrators yesterday urged students to use caution if they head south for spring break, citing concerns over drug-related violence in northern...

3K pounds of pot seized in stash house Tucson police said they seized 3,711 pounds of marijuana from a Southeast Side home yesterday. The marijuana, said police Sgt. Kerry Fuller, would be worth about $1.8 million on the street. The...

Ton of pot, suspect seized Tucson sector Border Patrol agents seized nearly a ton of marijuana and arrested one person Wednesday. In both incidents, the drugs were in false compartments under truck beds. Around 7 p.m.,...

Homeland Security nominee 'strongly' backs guest-worker plan WASHINGTON - Michael Chertoff, President Bush's nominee to head the Homeland Security Department, said yesterday that the president's plan to create a guest-worker program for undocumented...

Hispanic alliances urged to fight growing hostility PHOENIX - Latino leaders are urging Hispanics to join together to address common concerns and counter anti-immigrant attitudes gaining strength in Arizona and across the country. They're...

16 illegal migrants found at NW Side residence Sixteen illegal immigrants were found in a Northwest Side home yesterday by Pima County Sheriff's deputies and turned over to the U.S. Border Patrol. Sheriff's spokeswoman Dawn Barkman said the...

Border town starts patrols to guard school bus stops Run-ins with illegal immigrants near a small southeast Arizona town has the county sheriff and volunteers protecting buses and bus stops within a few miles of the Mexican border. Concern...

Sting recovers Mexican baby; 3 men in custody A baby is back in her mother's arms, and three foreign nationals are in custody after an international kidnapping ended with a sting operation Thursday. Two brothers from Mexico and a man from...

More agents, aircraft to guard border Arizona's 350-mile border with Mexico will be the most heavily patrolled stretch in the nation under a federal plan to be announced today in Tucson. The effort, dubbed the Arizona Border Control...

Cocaine worth $18.5 million seized; 1 held Border Patrol agents seized nearly 580 pounds of cocaine from a hidden compartment in a pickup truck that illegally crossed the Arizona-Mexico border near Arivaca, agency spokesman Rob Daniels said....

Death penalty is sought in Texas smuggling case HOUSTON - Federal prosecutors said yesterday they will seek the death penalty against a truck driver accused of participating in a human-smuggling operation that ended with the deaths of 19 illegal...

CRAFTS PROJECT AIDS MEXICO: Can-do attitude A Tucson artisan is taking her trade south of the border, aiming to empower women in Tijuana, Baja California, while preserving the environment. Jennifer Utsch, 34, turns steel cans into candle...

Agents mount up to patrol border When the U.S. Border Patrol was created by Congress in 1924, Uncle Sam agreed to buy the feed as long as patrolmen provided their own horses. Eighty years later, in a back-to-basics move, the...

Border agents find 54 migrants hiding at Bisbee property Three U.S. citizens face smuggling charges after 30 Mexicans were found hiding in a Bisbee home's crawl space and 24 others were found elsewhere on the property, Border Patrol spokesman Rob Daniels...

Yuma winter visitors flock to Mexico for care YUMA - Barbara Sommerfeldt smiled as she limbered up in the late-morning sun at the annual downtown Yuma Lettuce Days. She was getting ready for the first of three square dances for the day....

Smuggler convoy called a first here In an unprecedented move along the U.S.-Mexico border, a convoy of 12 pickup trucks packed with suspected illegal immigrants barreled through the Tohono O'odham Nation and tried to run down...

Multifaith clergy hope to raise awareness of immigrants' plight Citing an obligation as religious leaders to address the plight of immigrants crossing the Arizona desert, more than 100 clergy gathered yesterday, mindful that all faiths command an outstretched...

'FedEx' doesn't fool agent A Mexican man driving a fake Federal Express van stocked with food and water was arrested by a Border Patrol agent who noticed the vehicle lacked a commercial license plate. The white Ford van,...

105 suspected migrants found in 2 trucks A total of 105 suspected illegal immigrants were found in the cargo areas of two U-Haul rental trucks after their drivers abandoned them along Interstate 19 yesterday. Two Border Patrol agents...

Shootout ends with migrant dead in trunk A suspected illegal immigrant stashed in the trunk of a car was killed when his smuggler shot at a Border Patrol agent after a routine traffic stop north of Tucson, Border Patrol officials said....

Illegal immigrant charged with assaulting Border Patrol agent An illegal immigrant from Mexico was charged with aggravated assault for allegedly attacking a U.S. Border Patrol agent and causing his pistol to go off, which wounded the agent and the man. A...

Immigration raids net 42 MEXICO CITY - Mexican police arrested 42 immigration agents and other government employees accused of running a network that smuggled illegal immigrants into the United States, officials said...

Senators slam Bush for not pushing immigration plan through Congress WASHINGTON - Several key senators criticized President Bush yesterday for failing to use his leadership to push immigration reforms through Congress. "I know when the administration really wants...

Bill to legalize migrant farmworkers gets support WASHINGTON - House and Senate lawmakers rallied yesterday behind legislation that would legalize as many as 500,000 illegal immigrants employed as farmworkers, but the Bush administration has yet to...

Migrant warnings going up "Do not stop for hitchhikers" signs, commonly seen near prisons, will soon go up along a highway popular with illegal immigrants. The U.S. Border Patrol will erect the billboards along State...

41 migrants found in 'suspicious' truck A group of 41 illegal immigrants, who had each paid $2,000 for entry into the United States, was found in the back of a delivery truck last weekend. Border Patrol agents noticed the...

4 sentenced in 4-ton pot case Four men were sentenced Thursday to federal prison for smuggling 8,500 pounds of marijuana. Jose Gastelum-Molina, 27, of Sinaloa state in Mexico was arrested April 3, 2002, after officers from...

State's busiest port getting upgrades NOGALES - Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano yesterday unveiled upgrades at the state's busiest commercial port of entry designed to increase the speed of safety inspections. The Arizona Motor...

Migrants jam holding pen Border Patrol agents are busting illegal immigrants faster than they can ship them to processing centers, cramming a temporary holding facility with as many as 500 detainees at a time. Since...

Mexican cascarones banned in United States A smashing time can be had by all this Easter, as long as it's not with cascarones from Mexico. The decorated, confetti-filled eggshells, popular during Easter celebrations, are banned from...

Scan finds pot cache in truck U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers seized 1,504 pounds of marijuana Saturday at the Mariposa cargo facility at the Nogales port of entry. A gamma-ray scan on a tractor-trailer revealed...

364 illegal immigrants captured over weekend U.S. Border Patrol agents captured 364 suspected illegal immigrants last weekend in Green Valley and near Arivaca. The apprehensions are significant, said Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame....

Illegal immigrant tapes crossing for TV show In the past 10 years, Marcelino, a 29-year-old laborer from Mexico, has risked his life three times crossing the U.S.-Mexico border illegally. Last December, Marcelino attempted a fourth...

5 charged in robbery of 23 illegal entrants Twenty-three suspected illegal immigrants became robbery victims while trying to sneak into the United States yesterday. Border Patrol agents got a call from a state Department of Public Safety...

Border agents can dismantle auto gas tanks WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court gave government agents broader authority yesterday to search and even dismantle cars' gas tanks in their battle against smuggling at the nation's borders. Several...

DOBBS: Federal immigration officials refused to pick up 15 illegal aliens stopped on a Pennsylvania highway. The reason? The immigration official said it was simply too snowy outside. The illegal aliens were originally stopped by Pennsylvania police who say they are not allowed to hold illegal aliens unless they commit a crime in front of them. We assume they mean a crime other than entering this country illegally. All 15 were, you guessed it, released.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts on these issues. Joanne in Zebulon, North Carolina, "I have only one question. Why can't the open borders people who are on your program understand the difference between immigration and illegal immigration?"

Charles in Stansfield, British Columbia, "I'm a Canadian. Many of us Canadians would love to be living and working in the United States, however, unlike people in America's southern border, your northern border neighbors tend to respect your immigration laws and apply for a green card before we take up American residence."---snip----

CALIFORNIANS DON'T WANT DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS By Michelle Malkin · March 04, 2005 04:06 PM

Californians strongly oppose (62% to 35%) giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens, according to a new Field Poll. That's something for members of the U.S. House and U.S. Senate to mull over as they consider whether to support the Real ID Act.

Related: Bryanna Bevens, "That REAL ID Bill: Americans Pay For Washington’s Cowardice"

Mr. Robinson,

You've been pulling many illegal immigration threads off of your forum of late. Many members have asked me if you have been compromised by the Republican Party, noting how your last fundraising effort was met in a matter of hours instead of days. I believe we should know if that's true or not, especially in light of your suppression of threads opposing illegal immigration and the banning of members who've given you funding.

I signed up here years ago convinced that your site was about truth and good government. I believe an honest explanation is warranted at this point or you can boot me off and make things plainly clear for those of us striving for an honest government. What say you?

Thank you for your response. "We guys" are usually exasperated by the abuses laid on by your favored members who lean on the abuse button after losing the logical argument. You can check that for yourself - we have not only been bullied but have been told that we may be banned if we don't toe the line.

I mainain that you are either hosting a site for conservative opinions or a cheerleading forum for the Republican Party. You can't have it both ways. Which is it?

Where do you get the racism crap? Even as far back as 1985 aprox. 20% of the illegals coming across the southern border were from asia and the middle east (per border patrol agents at Otay Mesa), it's got nothing to do with race.

I'll flame bayroud and his POS gang whenever I can!

As far as "vigilanes", there aren't or haven't been any as of today but it sure would be a welcome occurance since the government is so bent on encouraging illegal imigration.

My mission is as stated. Number one priority at the moment (after national defense and the war on terror) is seeing that we keep as many marxist/liberal/socialists as possible out of office and that conservative judges get appointed to the courts. That's the only way we're going to make any progress whatsoever in our goals. Many of the problems created by liberals will go away after we have a turnover in the courts and stop the liberal judicial activism that is thwarting our efforts at the ballot box and elsewhere. Those who are trying to start a race war or a shooting war at the border are part of the problem, not the solution.

Those who are trying to start a race war or a shooting war at the border are part of the problem, not the solution.

Agreed. And same for your priorities previously noted.

IMO, the frustration that many conservatives feel about the lack of control of the borders, and the interference being run by anyone in the Congress who tries to do something about it, by the Bush administration (for whatever reasons) has got to be of paramount concern of all conservatives. How can there be "national security" or "national defense" without border security?

IMO, ignoring border security reduces every other initiative vis a vis national security, homeland security, war on terrorism to a charade. I agree that vigilantism is not the answer. But one must look at why some have concluded that vigilantism IS necessary. I can't imagine any of these folks wanting to hunt down illegals, excepting for the sad fact that the US Federal government has totally abdicated it's responsibility for control of our sovereign nation's borders.

I sure hope that you are not stifling cogent debate on this timely and important subject on this forum.

RE: "I suggest you guys quit flaming each others and knock off the racism."

I have participated in many ILLEGAL immigration threads. (I always put ILLEGAL in caps because so many refused to grant us the courtesy that it is ILLEGAL immigration that we oppose.)

I have expressed the opinion that after some research -- though I am very much opposed to ILLEGAL immigration -- I have come to be against deportation except for the trouble makers.

(IMO, we invited them here. We being the government and business. No "guest workers" and no amnesty as in 1986 but instead something like PRUCOL; i.e., recognize that they are here as residents though they were formerly ILLEGAL residents. Then enforce existing laws.)

The point is, despite the fact that I separated from the "deport 'el all" thinking I have not been flamed or called names.

I have been taunted by being called (or suggested that I am a) racist, bigot, xenophobe by those who favor the "guest worker" program, however. I do not fall for the taunts so the taunts do not go beyond the initial stage.

Racism?

Why do most of us single out Mexicans? Mexico's corrupt government has a policy of herding their unwanted citizens across the border IMO. Mexico's corrupt government meddles in our internal affairs -- I've posted a reference to a news item that states that Ireland is starting to do the same.

I have seen a few very disgusting "shoot 'em at the borders" statements, I've seen comments on the crime problem -- I have not read everything and apparently I've missed the overt racism.

I've never seen it though I suppose it gets purged thus making unnecessary work for the FR crew. I suppose that is the racism problem.

Point taken. And BTW I do not see myself as fitting that profile. I have never cared much about who comes here, as long as they came here legally and with no maliscious intent, abided by our laws, and made a reasonable attempt to assimilate into our society. Unfortunately, the current game is about low wage labor, and both Democrats and Republicans are in that game, and it sure seems to me that border control and national security have taken a back seat. JMHO.

I have no idea.

I wish you did; but I understand you can't follow everyone's posts on here, not to mention it is quite difficult to really know a person based on a few fragments of his/her thoughts you may come across occasionally. It'd just be nice to be given the benefit of the doubt.

But if anyone here starts defending or promoting Stormfront or the National Alliance or any other skinhead group, his FR account will be nuked and I don't care how great a conservative he thinks he is.

Makes good sense.

All I'm saying is I don't think it's right to indirectly lump us in with those groups, which I am *confident* the vast majority of anti-illegal immigration FReepers (who themselves make up most of the forum) do not support.

Agsin, thanks for the reasoned response. I've strived to maintain your mission goals (believe it or not) because they are indeed the only way to maintain our Republic. Let me repost your response:

Number one priority at the moment (after national defense and the war on terror) is seeing that we keep as many marxist/liberal/socialists as possible out of office and that conservative judges get appointed to the courts. That's the only way we're going to make any progress whatsoever in our goals. Many of the problems created by liberals will go away after we have a turnover in the courts and stop the liberal judicial activism that is thwarting our efforts at the ballot box and elsewhere. Those who are trying to start a race war or a shooting war at the border are part of the problem, not the solution.

I'm down with all of that until you consider this Minuteman Project to be a band of vigilantes looking to put kill-marks on their guns. This was devised as an Observe-and-Report from initialation and the people in charge have made it plain that no BS will be tolerated. Your painting of this as near-outlawness has given the mass media a handle when it really deserves credit as a rare civilian movement striving for reform. In the big picture this may be the juncture when we lose the ability to do anything without government permission. Some here already maintain that we're all the government's property and have no rights at all (the late-night lawyer threads are super-creepy). To me it's not about parties or groups; it's about seeing our predecessors' efforts realizided for our own progeny's future. The Bush families' idea of what we should do rang wrong when Senior rapsodized sbout a New World order and how we should work to achieve it. Which brings up the thought that "border wedgies" (thank member Cultural Jihad) are a problem impeding that "goal". That isn't a goal at all when you see that we (the United States) still lead the world on every signifigant measure. If you look at their posts you'll see that Cultural Jihad, Ben Ficklin, Dane and others have been doing their damndest to discourage us to defend our nation against this ongoing incursion. I don't know about you, but I can't see our eliminating enemies in foreign lands while allowing access to the same here because contributors want supercheap labor.

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