Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Terri and executive power (Terri Schiavo and Executive Power)
RenewAmerica.US ^ | March 22, 2005 | David Quackenbush

Posted on 03/23/2005 7:40:30 AM PST by topher

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-105 next last
To: MatrixMetaphore

How so? I can't see anything more dangerous than exchanging the Constitutional right to life with the humanist right to die. This has been done before. They "give" us civil rights and human rights, which take the place of Constitutional rights.


81 posted on 03/23/2005 9:55:47 AM PST by monkeywrench
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: monkeywrench

Do you not see that this will set up a premise where if a mother/father and spouse disagree on the fate of the person in question, the government can intervene at any point? What if your wife was near death, and the only thing keeping her alive was a respirator? She would surely die without it, but her parents want to keep her alive, despite the fact she won't recover. As her husband, you have the final say of what happens. Do you want a court to take that away? And before you say "this is different", let me assure you that I know. I'm making a point, though.


82 posted on 03/23/2005 10:02:18 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore

Most husbands aren't trying to murder their wife.


83 posted on 03/23/2005 10:03:22 AM PST by over3Owithabrain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore

Thank you. That's very concise and helpful for this layman (er, woman). So how come state-convicted death penalty inmates get federal review?

Any idea whether there any precedent where the Supreme Court found a state law in violation of federally protected civil rights and therefore unconstitutional?

In fact, didn't they just do this in their ruling about juvenile death row convicts?


84 posted on 03/23/2005 10:08:52 AM PST by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: over3Owithabrain

Again, I'm not agreeing with this. But I worry about the ramifications. The law doesn't see him as killing his wife either. So this will haunt us for a long time.


85 posted on 03/23/2005 10:09:01 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: codercpc

"Although we each have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we must never take knee jerk reactions that threatens the rest of the Constitution!"

The constitution has stopped working. It needs to be made to work again. Regardless of sophistry I have read here, the judiciary is out of control. The only immediate remedy is for strong executive action. No doubt, this will cause upheaval. However, I am confident that after the dust settles, the balance intended by the constitution will be restored. We will again have "rule of law" instead of the current "rule of lawyers."

I was greatly heartened to see that the majority of fellow Freepers agreed with me that "Extraordinary Executive Action" is appropriate. This tells me that we are not far from restoring the republic to what it should be. Your choice is simple. Join us and help keep things in control, or fight against and really cause a mess.


86 posted on 03/23/2005 10:10:41 AM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: topher

Awesome article, actually. Thanks for posting this.


87 posted on 03/23/2005 10:18:11 AM PST by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore

The court is taking that away at this moment by upholding Terri's man given "right to die". It's already a done deal.


88 posted on 03/23/2005 10:18:33 AM PST by monkeywrench
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: agrace
My guess is that the federal government, having its own laws on capital punishment, reviews the case because of the supremacy clause.
89 posted on 03/23/2005 10:27:45 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: monkeywrench

The court is not taking away Michael's right to decide the fate of his wife. He's pushing for this. So I don't understand your comment.


90 posted on 03/23/2005 10:29:07 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Leatherneck_MT
You are a good man of well intentioned ideals, I am sure.

May I ask you, how many times will Terri be subjected to the removal of sufficient care necessary to remain alive?

Is this the very last time? Or will she have to endure this, on and off, until it is long enough to kill her.

91 posted on 03/23/2005 10:31:00 AM PST by G.Mason (The replies by this poster are meant for self-amusement only. Read at your own discretion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Leatherneck_MT; ex 98C MI Dude
If we allow a woman who has committed no crime to be willfully murdered, then we don't have far to go to be at the gates of hell. If the law allows this, then the law has become so perverted that the meaning, the very foundations, of this nation have crumbled.

Absolutely and if that is the case then it's past time for a house cleaning. The Judges need to go, the Pols who allowed this to continue need to go and the lawyers who support them both need to be used to create an artificial reef at the bottom of some very deep ocean.

I'm with both of you

92 posted on 03/23/2005 10:31:06 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore
My guess is that the federal government, having its own laws on capital punishment, reviews the case because of the supremacy clause.

Reviews which case, you mean the juvenile death row issue? I thought of another example, if you'll indulge one more question. What was the federal jurisdiction of the justice dept when it decided to prosecute the Rodney King cops for violating his civil rights?

I found this regarding that case -

In some instances, however, it is because of another factor - such as apparent racial bias. For instance, the verdict in the first, State trial of the police officers charged with beating Rodney King is thought by many to have been based not on the evidence, but on bias. And in such cases, a second, federal trial may be warranted, so that a jury can fairly consider the evidence.

With that in mind, why couldn't the justice dept decide to investigate based on bias charges?

I'm not expecting you to have all the answers (what a first day you're having on FR!), but you sound of a legal mind, at least moreso than myself, so thanks for the dialogue. You said in a later post to someone else -

Again, I'm not agreeing with this. But I worry about the ramifications. The law doesn't see him as killing his wife either. So this will haunt us for a long time.

That's what I've been thinking also. These rulings set a dangerous precedent. It was bad enough for the state of FL, but it may turn out that forcing the federal courts to address it as well just made it that much worse.

93 posted on 03/23/2005 10:46:31 AM PST by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: agrace
I'm enjoying the conversation as well, so no need to apologize for the questions. You're actually making me thing haha! Anyway, my guess is that the case you quoted was bias on race discrimination. Obviously that's not the case with Terri Schiavo.

Yes, the juvenile death row issue is what I was referring to. The federal government has its own laws and statutes regarding capital punishment. My guess is that the juvenile matter was in question on both levels, therefore the Supreme Court heard the case.

Florida law does not see the removal of an assisted living measure as "murder". In fact, to my knowledge, neither does federal law. With that in mind, this case will change that so essentially the federal government WILL view this as murder.

This is where I am worried because there will be case law supporting a third party's right to change the power of attorney relationship. Also, this could in face set new standards for life support. How many have living wills which dictate that they are not to be kept alive using artificial means? That right could be waived if this passes.
94 posted on 03/23/2005 11:01:44 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore

She has a right to life which should supercede any rights he claims. His "right to decide" can't trump this basic fundamental right to life of hers. I think it'd be great if the govt. set the precedent of defending individual rights.


95 posted on 03/23/2005 11:02:48 AM PST by monkeywrench
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: monkeywrench
Please try to think this through. Yes, everyone has the right to live. However, what if you are not capable of choosing that right? That is why we have power of attorney, and next of kin. They are authorized to speak on our behalf when we are unable to. She, obviously, is unable to express exactly what she wants. Therefore, it's up to the next of kin, who is her husband. Your personal feelings on him and his position notwithstanding, he is the one who decides what is "best" for her. You want to take that away from him.

Again, your feelings towards him notwithstanding, how would you feel if your spouse was physically and/or mentally unable to choose their own fate, and you and their parents were feuding on it. Legally you have the right to choose for them. Would you want the government to take that away?
96 posted on 03/23/2005 11:08:49 AM PST by MatrixMetaphore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: topher
When judges act in a way that contravenes the conscience of the executive, they forfeit the cooperation of the executive

Well, that's interesting. Judges can't "contravene the conscience of the executive".
97 posted on 03/23/2005 11:26:26 AM PST by self_evident
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore
"However, what if you are not capable of choosing that right?"

Fortunately, the Constitution decides for me and my God given unalienable right to life. That way, no conflict of interest, such as the hino's, will kill me. The govt. was instituted to protect that most basic right. If it doesn't, what need do we have for govt.?

Straying beyond Constitutional borders will just get us further mired in complex and conflicting interests. Not to mention rights made out of whole cloth.

98 posted on 03/23/2005 11:34:46 AM PST by monkeywrench
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: MatrixMetaphore
Anyway, my guess is that the case you quoted was bias on race discrimination. Obviously that's not the case with Terri Schiavo.

The excerpt from the link I found said that the second, federal trial was held because the justice dept felt that the first verdict was racially biased, I guess meaning that the not guilty verdict violated Rodney King's civil rights. Maybe the racial aspect doesn't apply here, but bias certainly might. As well as other civil rights violations, which seems to be the angle the Schindlers are using in this federal track. Unfortunately, so far, the federal courts aren't in agreement with them, or me. :)

And regarding precedent, I think I'm concerned about the opposite - the federal precedent I am worried about is that this will NOT be viewed as murder because of the federal rulings so far. Seems like a start down a dangerous slippery slope where cases from any state could point to this one and say that deliberate dehydration and starvation is acceptable.

99 posted on 03/23/2005 11:35:09 AM PST by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: All
All I know for certain is that the clock is ticking, and if someone can act, they should do so NOW.

They can argue about whether or not it was a justifiable action later.

100 posted on 03/23/2005 11:36:22 AM PST by Nuzcruizer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-105 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson