Terri and executive power (Terri Schiavo and Executive Power)

RenewAmerica.US ^ | March 22, 2005 | David Quackenbush

[codercpc]

Murder by starvation IS an illegal order. Period.

Not according to the courts of Florida.

Your argument (that the police should not enforce the law), is as stupid as the Anti -War activists saying that our soldiers are no better than the SS in WWII. These Anti -War activists believe just as passionately as you do that the war is "illegal" (no I am putting absolutely no credence in that argument, of course the war was legal) as you do that the order to remove the feeding tube from Terri is somehow illegal.

Unfortunately, every court that has reviewed it doesn't believe that removing a tube is illegal. Just as I believe that abortion is murder, it's obvious that the courts don't agree with me.

My heart bleeds for Terri, but the hyperbole at this site has become unbelievable. I never thought that the day would come when I would go to Free Republic and see a poll that states they want our President to do something, even if it is against the law, to protect one person. Although we each have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we must never take knee jerk reactions that threatens the rest of the Constitution!

[Dr. Frank fan]

It isn't a matter for me to Google. You made a statement, I asked you what the legistature did. Should you wish to circumvent the discussion, by all means do so.

What on earth are you talking about? circumvent?

Again, you bolded the article's statement that the judiciary is in contradiction with the executive/legislature. You asked me, of all people, what the legislature has done about it. I told you. They passed a law explicitly endorsing the notion of the Governor of Florida ordering her life saved by executive order. That's the answer. That doesn't "circumvent" your question, it answers it, unless your question had some subtle meaning I am missing.

The point is that the governor has not stormed the hospice care provider in Largo and taken custody of Terri.

That is true. Wow, good point!

um, that's what the article is saying. That the governor has the power to save her life, and should, but is not. We all agree about that, then, apparently.

The question is ... why not?

I dunno. He's afeard, I reckon.

Any other questions?

[agrace]

At the US Supreme Court, where the Roe v Wade decision is stored, they are always finding it turned upside down on the bookself [overturning Roe v Wade symbolically].

Really? I get a smug satisfaction from that little anecdote, thanks for sharing.

[G.Mason]

"If necessary yes"

It has become painfully apparent it is necessary.

When will you begin?

[MatrixMetaphore]

I think Jeb knows the facts as best he can. The problem is he is powerless right now, and so is the president. There seems to be a misconception that a pardon could be initiated. This is incorrect, because Terri was never "sentenced" to death.

Also, to comment on the post regarding initiating martial law, I think this is a terrible idea. It will create a precedence for anyone who the government feels deserves an "alternate" fate.

Global News Matrix

[agrace]

Welcome to FR. What about the supremacy clause? What if the state actions are violating her civil rights - cruel and unusual punishment, equal protection etc. Why is it constitutional to require federal review for capital punishment cases but not for this case?

[topher]

Really? I get a smug satisfaction from that little anecdote, thanks for sharing.

I also get a satisfaction thinking about that as well...

[grassboots.org]

I'm not sure if you can make a ruling on the video tapes anyways. First, they could be redacted. Some of the taping was court-ordered. The balloon tape was made by the court-appointed doctor (who by the way testified she is a PVS after talking to Terri telling her what a good job she was doing following the balloon.

[MatrixMetaphore]

Please don't make the mistake in assuming I agree with what's happening to her. I think she should live, be divorced, and stay with her parents. What I don't agree with is the "circus" this has turned into. My problems surpass her case, and fall directly on the government. I don't agree with the actions of the government, because I don't recognize their authority in this situation.

GlobalNewsMatrix

[Law]

When you call Gov. Bush, ask about the following:

I did a google search on "Florida law adultery criminal" and found a web site that claims that under section 798.01 of the Florida code that:

"Whoever lives in an open state of adultery shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083." Reportedly, punishment for a misdemeanor of the second degree can be up to 60 days imprisonment.

If Jeb Bush really wants to help Terri, why doesn't he direct Florida law enforcement to arrest Michael Shiavo under this standard and while he is in jail (even overnight before the bail hearing) have, or petition to have, a new guardian appointed, perhaps on the basis that Michael can't do the job in jail or must be replaced because of the criminal charges?

I don't know how new guardians are chosen but would think her parents are the logical alternative and they would direct her to be fed and given water again.

[G.Mason]

"They passed a law explicitly endorsing the notion of the Governor of Florida ordering her life saved by executive order."

So the legislature explicitly endorsed the notion of the governor, ordering her life saved by executive order.

That's nice.

It would seem the the governor is not taking the notion to heart.

I guess my next question (thanks for asking) would be ... what's next, or would you rather I Google?

[topher]

It's been said that that the doctor(s) should be brought up on charges and perhaps lose their medical licenses. I'm not sure I disagree.

It may have been a stacked deck -- Attorney George Felos was the Chairman of the Board of the hospice [and the business that runs it] in 1998 to 1999 [maybe 2000]. About the time Terri was admitted, he was ONLY a director.

I think they used testimonies from the hospice, which might imply Attorney Felos has some control over.

The stories of three nurses are very interesting -- the who left yesterday was very upset about what was going on [Nora].

But I think there is a link that may help you... I will just post that link after reading it.

[ElectionTracker]

Eh, I think there should be a Constitutional Amendment removing the judiciary as a branch of government and instead only allowing judges to preside over civil and criminal cases. I can't think of a single way in which the judiciary has ever improved anything.

[mrsmith]

Jackson didn't take any action. He just did nothing.
Clinton took action to defy the court.

If Bush does nothing, like Jackson, the order is carried out anyway.

[G.Mason]

" ... The problem is he is powerless right now ... "

Not according to the very "reputable" David Quackenbush.

Hmmmm ... whom to believe.

[GarySpFc]

When judges act in a way that contravenes the conscience of the executive, they forfeit the cooperation of the executive -- and that is how the Founders intended it to be.

Today we are governed by a judicial oligrachy which believes in murder by due process of the law.

[agrace]

I wasn't assuming anything other than that you may have the knowledge to lend me some insight into my questions. Why don't you recognize the govt's authority? And to repeat, what about the supremacy clause, etc? Any thoughts?

[MatrixMetaphore]

If they do that, there will be no authority to change anything outside of "breaking the law". That's not an option.

Global News Matrix

[ElectionTracker]

"Murder by starvation IS an illegal order. Period.

Not according to the courts of Florida.

Your argument (that the police should not enforce the law), is as stupid as the Anti -War activists saying that our soldiers are no better than the SS in WWII. These Anti -War activists believe just as passionately as you do that the war is "illegal" (no I am putting absolutely no credence in that argument, of course the war was legal) as you do that the order to remove the feeding tube from Terri is somehow illegal.

Unfortunately, every court that has reviewed it doesn't believe that removing a tube is illegal. Just as I believe that abortion is murder, it's obvious that the courts don't agree with me.

My heart bleeds for Terri, but the hyperbole at this site has become unbelievable. I never thought that the day would come when I would go to Free Republic and see a poll that states they want our President to do something, even if it is against the law, to protect one person. Although we each have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we must never take knee jerk reactions that threatens the rest of the Constitution!"

Murder is illegal. The courts have no right to rule rewrite the law so that someone can be murdered. If it takes executive action to get courts back in line, good. Anything involving elected officials is better than activist judges changing the law at whim. Hopefully, this will pave the way for the elected branches to ignore the unconstitutional principle of "judicial overview" altogether. IMO, if the court refuses to follow the law, the executive branch should ignore it and enforce the law on its own. Rule of Law is better than Rule of Permanent-Oligarch Judges.

[ex 98C MI Dude]

You and I are of the same mind on this.

If we allow a woman who has committed no crime to be willfully murdered, then we don't have far to go to be at the gates of hell. If the law allows this, then the law has become so perverted that the meaning, the very foundations, of this nation have crumbled.