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Liberal Meltdown in Canada (USA is catching on)
april04, 2005

Posted on 04/04/2005 5:11:21 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

My fellow FReepers, I am very happy this is happening. Michelle Malkin (www.michellemalkin.com)has caught on as well. You can help us canadian freepers by sending this gomery thing to all US newspapers. Also remember MOST of our tv channels are american. I would like to see the Liberal arresting US media for reporting the corruption since they have banned it.

Lets look at some recent headlines about our 'Government':

"Canada's Liberals Ask Federal Police to Investigate itself over Ad Spending" http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=arM2WT0WmWb0&refer=canada

"Flustered Liberal MPs hold conference call on sponsorship developments" http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=n040429A

Liberals call in the Mounties http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=fee54523-14ce-45fc-8948-8a9028bd65c8

Liberals Try to Limit Damage From Scandal http://www.obviousnews.com/breakingnews/stories/obviousnews-552876.html

Quick election talk lingers http://www.canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050404/TTNEWS03/204040439/-1/TTNEWS

Devastating sponsorship testimony has Tories pushing for election call http://www.obviousnews.com/breakingnews/stories/obviousnews-553060.html

Opposition slams Liberals over inquiryhttp://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=440c5e79-f93c-42e0-b53d-8f8c3bd6d74d

Big Canadian scandal going public http://news.google.ca/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=liberal+brault+testimony&scoring=d&sa=N&start=100

Testimony may topple Liberals http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/04/02/979695-sun.html


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: adscam; canada; corruption; gomery

1 posted on 04/04/2005 5:11:23 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

At the risk of sounding like "Bunny with Pancakes", please tell me what this is all about. Links if you've got them, or a <50 word summation?


2 posted on 04/04/2005 5:14:58 PM PDT by Old Sarge (In for a penny, in for a pound, saddlin' up and Baghdad-bound!)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

I hope you are correct.......that there are cracks appearing in the MASSIVE liberal iceberg that is Canada.


3 posted on 04/04/2005 5:17:08 PM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Old Sarge
Check out Instapundit.com for lots of links on the Canadian scandal.

Basically there's bad stuff going on, and the government has threatened any media outlet against reporting the details.

There's no First Amendment in Canada, and it shows.

4 posted on 04/04/2005 5:19:36 PM PDT by narby
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

I did see Michelle Malkin's blog today, and I confess I didn't follow ALL the links - but I couldn't seem to get a story with just-the-facts. So I'm still not sure exactly what this scandal is all about. Can anyone explain?
(It's been a rough couple of weeks folks)


5 posted on 04/04/2005 5:22:15 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: narby

ok, will keep checking this out. Thanks for the tip.


6 posted on 04/04/2005 5:23:07 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: narby

Interesting development...

Kind of like how the media tried to spike Monica?


7 posted on 04/04/2005 5:23:10 PM PDT by Old Sarge (In for a penny, in for a pound, saddlin' up and Baghdad-bound!)
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To: Fudd Fan

treat this as Watergate x100. You get the idea.


8 posted on 04/04/2005 5:25:44 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-; Old Sarge; narby; RightOnline; Fudd Fan

Unfortunately trying not to be condensing, I feel that a number of Canadians are a bit "a bit simple, too naive". They could not care less about the corruption at the Dominion's government as long as His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales' ceremony of blessing is shown live on the CBC this Saturday.


9 posted on 04/04/2005 5:27:01 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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To: NZerFromHK

From Captain's Quarters blog:
"A political scandal involving the Public Works Ministry, a government effort called the Sponsorship Program, and allegations of corruption in the ruling Liberal Party has Canada abuzz with rumors of payoffs, Mob ties, and snap elections. For the last two years, Canadian politics has been gripped by the so-called “sponsorship scandal” – tens of millions of dollars in government contracts which were funneled into advertizing firms closely connected with the Liberal government for little or no work, but with shadowy rumours that much of the money found its way back into Liberal coffers."


10 posted on 04/04/2005 5:29:24 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: NZerFromHK

only Liberal would insult average people intelligence. Are you one?


11 posted on 04/04/2005 5:30:31 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

I have no idea if you can get the ABC-radio Network anywhere in Canada, but John Batchelor's show is usually all over stuff like this. Will check it out tonite.


12 posted on 04/04/2005 5:30:55 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

No, I mean "a number of" and it is not all. I stand by my belief.


13 posted on 04/04/2005 5:33:48 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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To: NZerFromHK

i hope the US media and world press cover this.


14 posted on 04/04/2005 5:35:46 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

The established "mainstream" media won't cover it. They would not want to embarrass their ideological mates who they hold as role models for the States. I think the WSJ, Washington Times and Fox will cover them. And so will National Review, American Spectator and the Weekly Standard.

Across the pond expect the Financial Times, Daily Telegraph, and the Economist cover on these. But nothing from (continental) Europe.


15 posted on 04/04/2005 5:39:06 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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To: Old Sarge
As near as I can tell, this is the scandal:

When Quebec came close to seceding last go-round, the Candian Government decided it'd be a good idea to promote "Canadianess" to the Kebbekkers. So they put together a media fund to buy ads and such that they could run in 'bek to convince them of the virtues of Canadianity.

The fund appears to have been *GASP* mismanaged by the ruling Liberal party! Millions of canadian dollars ($300 in American money) went to buddies, cronies and supporters and nothing was produced in return. The investigation has proceeded at a glacial pace (due to foot-dragging by the ruling party and tons of enforced secrecy), but with every yearly revelation the scope of the theivery broadens.

The Liberal Party has tried to keep the RCMP (The Mounties) Investigation a secret as possible, even going so far as to outlaw media coverage of it.
16 posted on 04/04/2005 5:45:40 PM PDT by Mongeaux
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To: Old Sarge

Good link:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/cat_canada.php

I found it helpful to catch up. (Sorry to sound like such an idiot tonite... I'm on death overload.)


17 posted on 04/04/2005 5:51:08 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: Mongeaux

this scandal also links to mafia, Paul Maurice, Paul Desmarais (Power Corporation) and lots of others. Seems to be center around Quebec, again.


18 posted on 04/04/2005 5:52:14 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: Mongeaux

Hmmm...

The difference being that, in America, the Media would willingly comply with the silence, if the government in power were Socialist.


19 posted on 04/04/2005 5:54:28 PM PDT by Old Sarge (In for a penny, in for a pound, saddlin' up and Baghdad-bound!)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
this scandal also links to mafia, Paul Maurice, Paul Desmarais (Power Corporation) and lots of others. Seems to be center around Quebec, again.

I just very recently heard about this scandal and I am amazed it isn't getting any press in the USA. My guess is the Liberals in the MSM aren't too anxious to aid in the downfall of another Liberal Government that they revere. Weren't all those disillusioned Post-Election American Lefties supposed to find Progressive Valhalla north of their border? How can you flee "Corruption" in America by moving into it in Canada?
20 posted on 04/04/2005 5:58:27 PM PDT by Mongeaux
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To: fanfan; youngtory; albertabound; Clive; connie; Entropy Squared; Squawk 8888; UpHereEh; ...

ping


21 posted on 04/04/2005 5:58:37 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

Canadian conservatives tend to be liberal by American standards so I don't hold much hope for this.

Candian English to American English translations:

Liberal = Communist

Conservative = Socialist

Nazi = Republican

Gun registration = gun ban

Free speech = censorship

Responsible government = tyranny

Member of Parliament = liar

Criminal conspirator = Member of Parliament

Reporter = liar

Respected expert on global climate change = liar

University professor = mentally ill sociopath

Mentally ill sociopath = radio talk show host

Bacon = ham

Quebecers = mentally ill sociopaths


22 posted on 04/04/2005 5:59:00 PM PDT by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: Mongeaux

I think if Matt Drudge (he could be the first, officially) report this it'll start a chain reaction. This is Watergate x1000000!!!.


23 posted on 04/04/2005 6:01:14 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: PeterFinn

excuse me? Sorry but that's getting old. The reasons the CPC need to go moderate because Toronto and Montreal control the entire country. Those two cities are socialist. The truth is, our Harper (leader of the CPC, also an economist if you need to know) is very conservative.


24 posted on 04/04/2005 6:04:53 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
I think if Matt Drudge (he could be the first, officially) report this it'll start a chain reaction. This is Watergate x1000000!!!.

Liberals stealing money and mismanaging funds is a big deal? You obviously have never followed Massachusetts Politics, my friend. Mafia connections, cronyism and embezzlement are more numerous in Liberal politics than leaks in The Big Dig.
25 posted on 04/04/2005 6:05:52 PM PDT by Mongeaux
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To: Mongeaux
The Liberal Party has tried to keep the RCMP (The Mounties) Investigation a secret as possible, even going so far as to outlaw media coverage of it.

You're close. But this isn't horseshoes or hand grenades.:)

The Gomery Commission was set up by the Liberal government of Martin to investigate the Liberal government of Chretien . Martin had been Chretien's finance minister till he fired him . Unfortunately for Chretien , Martin later became Prime Minister . Martin didn't know how deep the shit was. Or if he did he was gambling it wouldn't come out . Now Comery has a publication ban in effect for certain witnesses' testimony , who may later be charged with criminal offenses . It may be lifted as early as next week or at Comery's discretion . Officially it's for the protection of the right of the witnesses for a fair and unbiased trial . The testimony will be public record.

This has happened since the last election . In Quebec alone , 185,000 -200,000 viewers a day watch Gomery . And the Quebec Liberals both Federally and Provincially face dismal futures . The Quebecois are taking this personal .

26 posted on 04/04/2005 6:21:50 PM PDT by Snowyman
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To: Mongeaux

"You obviously have never followed Massachusetts Politics"

Or New Jersey


27 posted on 04/04/2005 6:42:00 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: Fudd Fan

To amplify what Mongeau says above in #26: the publication ban specifically covers the testimony of Jean Brault, a person directly involved in the federal sponsorship/advertising funds scandal. His testimony is TEMPORARILY banned from publication only because he is scheduled shortly to be tried on a criminal charge before a jury for his role in the transactions being investigated.

The federal inquiry into the scandal has sensibly decided to forbid media reporting of his revelations in advance of the selection of a jury - for the obvious reason that to do so could appear to prejudice the fairness of his trial and the trials of others who are charged with him.

Brault's lawyers have just asked for the trial to be deferred for several months because of the volume of evidence they are faced with. If the trial is deferred, the publication ban may stay in place, or, more likely, will probably be lifted as Brault's current testimony will not coincide with jury selection.

Dozens of people, including former Prime Minister Jean Chretien, have testified publically before Judge Gomery (Gomery is no friend of Chretien or the Liberal Party, by the way - far from it). The proceedings are televised and freely commented on in the Canadian media.

Canadians very much want to get to the bottom of this stinking mess. I, for one, think the publication ban on Brault's testimony is sensible, if it prevents claims of bias by him, his lawyers or the other alleged fraudsters in this case.

There's way too much hysteria and uninformed Canada-bashing on this thread. Some of the posters here need to chill out and educate themselves a bit about their Northern neighbor. Americans in general know little to nothing about Canada, and it certainly shows here.


28 posted on 04/04/2005 7:28:08 PM PDT by sharpsprocket
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To: Fudd Fan

That's the real issue here isn't it. Post Soviet neo-marxist political tactics all operate off the same or similar templates. And what has been uncovered in Canada is likely occuring in Leftist controlled political enclaves throughout North America... New York, New Jersey, California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon.


29 posted on 04/04/2005 7:28:10 PM PDT by Mr.Atos (http://mysandmen.blogspot.com)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

That's correct, although a good chunk of Quebec is socialist nowadays.

At least Toronto is an economic powerhouse due to its financial clout (just like New York and Los Angeles - big cities are almost always more left-wing than rural areas and smaller towns), while Montreal (and Quebec as a whole) is an economic drain...Quebec collects many billions more in equalization (welfare) and transfers than they send to the federal government.


30 posted on 04/04/2005 9:42:50 PM PDT by Heartofsong83
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To: sharpsprocket
The current testimony which is under a publications ban in Canada is all pointing at the current Prime Minister Paul Martin. He not only had knowledge of the hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars going to Liberal buddies and back to the Liberal party but helped to administer it and then to cover up it ever happened.

The Liberals were reduced to a minority government last fall and and election can happen at any time the opposition does not support a Liberal bill so that it fails.

The Conservatives have the second largest number of seats currently.

Now would American Conservatives like a Conservative Government in Canada?
31 posted on 04/04/2005 10:10:49 PM PDT by free_life
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To: free_life

our situation is more complicated then the US even if the CPC win.


32 posted on 04/04/2005 10:14:47 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

Thanks for the ping, SSA.


35 posted on 04/05/2005 5:41:56 AM PDT by fanfan (" The liberal party is not corrupt " Prime Minister Paul Martin)
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To: sharpsprocket

"There's way too much hysteria and uninformed Canada-bashing on this thread. Some of the posters here need to chill out and educate themselves a bit about their Northern neighbor. Americans in general know little to nothing about Canada, and it certainly shows here."

No doubt about it... but im used to the fact that a large chunk of the postings regarding Canada on FR involve uninformed people just wanting to hear themselves speak.


36 posted on 04/05/2005 9:35:16 AM PDT by AlbertaBeef
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To: Heartofsong83
while Montreal (and Quebec as a whole) is an economic drain I agree about Québec but not Montréal. That city has been making a comeback for the past few years primarily due to the aerospace and IT industries. I've been there a few times since 2000 and the difference from a decade ago is pretty impressive.

It helps to bear in mind that while most of Québec is pretty insular, Montréal has always been a very cosmopolitan city. The people there tend to be aware that there is life outside the St. Lawrence valley.

37 posted on 04/05/2005 10:26:20 AM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
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To: gaidheil

It's meant to be sort of toungue-in-cheek, but still, there are a lot of Canadian 'conservatives' here on FR who think that "some" gun control is okay. Who needs a (insert type of 'nasty' firearm here) anyways?

Then they tell about how great Canada's health care system is.

They complain that Americans do not pay enough taxes.

They complain America is cheap on foreign aid but then they fail to count the defacto defense subsidy Canada and others have received from the USA for decades.

On the other side of things, I often find myself defending Canada for the quirks of being a nation bordering a superpower that tries to maintain her own identity. I've applauded (and will continue to do so) Canadians who took in Americans who were stranded in Canada during the 9/11 crisis. I've observed that while Canada invaded the USA once since the Dominion (a little cross border thing in Maine) the USA has invaded Canada fourteen times and threatened war at an official level no less than thirty-one times. Canada has good reasons to be nervous about the USA.

So I'm not entirely one-sided.

I'm also a massive fan of Victoria, B.C. and go there as often as I can. Whistler is nice, too, but I can skip Vancouver as it is just another big city.


38 posted on 04/05/2005 11:09:18 AM PDT by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: Allan

Bump


39 posted on 04/05/2005 2:43:40 PM PDT by Allan
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To: NZerFromHK

Here's something that sums up my feelings on Canada:

The world is like one big family. The big dad is America, Mother Russia is the mother of course, China and India are the two sibling in constant rivalry, you have the pretty daughter who has a mean streak in France, you have the geeky little brother in Germany, and then you have Canada.
Canada is the cousin with Down's Syndrome everyone in the family loves and cares for. He's always got a smile on his face like a kid with Down's Syndrome, he's quite naive, is timid, insecure, and quite "slow", but in all harmless as long as you don't actually give him any real responsibility.


40 posted on 04/05/2005 2:59:42 PM PDT by rasblue
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

Don't forget the Desmaris connection to the Oil-for-Food scandal. Desmaris for those who don't know owns TotalFina which was the #1 customer of Sadaam back in the 1990's. Desmaris also owns Power Corp in Montreal who just happened to have every prime minister since Trudeau on its payroll at one point. Oh, Desmaris is also a major owner in BCE Enterprizes which owns the Globe and Mail and CTV Tv network. No help there.
Oh, and Desmaris' son is married to Jean Chretien's daughter.


41 posted on 04/05/2005 3:04:48 PM PDT by rasblue
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

The Greater Toronto Area (6,500,000), and Metro Montreal (5,000,000) are over 1/3 of the whole country. Include the rest of urban Ontario (10,000,000 out of 12,000,000) and Quebec (6,000,000 out of 7,500,000) and you have over 1/2 of a 31,000,000 peasant nation.
For the record Downtown Vancouver is socialist but the suburbs are solid Conservative Party supporters.


42 posted on 04/05/2005 3:09:00 PM PDT by rasblue
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To: sharpsprocket
The federal inquiry into the scandal has "sensibly decided"

This appears to be the problem. Prior restraint is the "sensible" option.

43 posted on 04/05/2005 3:13:22 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
I am totally in the dark here. When you say "the Liberal" with a capital "L" what are you referring to?
44 posted on 04/05/2005 3:19:11 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: rasblue

To mimic Queen Victoria's saying, "What a misfortune!" (half humour, half true sadness when a country acts like this)


45 posted on 04/05/2005 4:02:27 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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To: rasblue; -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-; Squawk 8888

The Greater Toronto Area (6,500,000), and Metro Montreal (5,000,000) are over 1/3 of the whole country. Include the rest of urban Ontario (10,000,000 out of 12,000,000) and Quebec (6,000,000 out of 7,500,000) and you have over 1/2 of a 31,000,000 peasant nation. For the record Downtown Vancouver is socialist but the suburbs are solid Conservative Party supporters.

One of the lethalness of Canada is that the two largest cities (even after including suburbs) are both relatively left-leaning. Toronto is left-leaning by English-speaking world standards (many compare it to Melbourne in Australia) and yet the Lonely Planet travel guide calls it both politically and socially conservative. Montreal is informed by Franco-Belgium political discourse which makes it doubly leftist.

In contrast, there is no Quebec in Australia, and no Montreal. True, New South Wales and Victoria together have 50% of Australia's populations, but its Toronto equivalent, at least when politics is concerned, is Melbourne rather than Sydney. And in Australia Melbourne is maringally dwarfed by Sydney (3.5 million cf Sydney's 5 million). Sydney is no Toronto, it is politically moderate as Paddy McGuinness had remarked:

-------------------------------------------------------

There is a harder edge, a tougher minded approach to many issues in Sydney compared with Melbourne. There you tend to get more of the politics of the warm inner glow, along with pretensions to intellectual, cultural and moral superiority. Typically, the Fabian Society - wishy-washy socialism for idealistic and ineffectual intellectuals - flourishes there while it never did in Sydney.

--------------------------------------------------------

And in other states, Tasmania is the kookiest state but even thre the far-left (Greens and Democrats) could only get 18% of votes, vis-a-vis the votes from New Democrats alone in the whole of Canada - 18%. This perhaps explain the difference in political gravity between Canada and Australia.

46 posted on 04/05/2005 4:16:29 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-; All

Here is a good link I've found to get up to speed on the scandal: http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006611.php


47 posted on 04/05/2005 4:25:29 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the Sunset...)
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To: NZerFromHK
One of the lethalness of Canada is that the two largest cities (even after including suburbs) are both relatively left-leaning.

Actually, in the Toronto area we have a mix of the loony left and "me first" yuppies in the city and mushy middle "don't take away my free health care" types out in the 'burbs. Most suburbanites here are socially conservative and loathe high taxes but scream blue murder if their government handouts are taken away. The problem in Canada isn't the left, it's the politicians who have made a science of buying off large groups of voters by looting from smaller, less influential groups.

48 posted on 04/05/2005 6:03:57 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
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To: Squawk 8888

I have witnessed that phenomenon from my relatives living in GTA - they are immigrants from Hong Kong. I don't know what has possessed them, but it seems other than lacking this edge of welfare self-reliance and muddling on economics, most are quite conservative (i.e. mainly social issues).

But the same could be said of Melbourne as well and most of the socialist Labor MPs come from Melbourne area rather than Sydney (who tended to supply moderate, old union types).


49 posted on 04/05/2005 6:08:40 PM PDT by NZerFromHK ("US libs...hypocritical, naive, pompous...if US falls it will be because of these" - Tao Kit (HK))
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