Posted on 08/11/2005 8:41:33 AM PDT by dukeman
Okay, so the libs whine and moan about "taking back God" from the Right and how they can be people with faith and liberal at the same time. So what do they look for in a church? Here's some insight from DU (as usual, it's all in their own words):
Tux (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-26-05 09:16 AM
Original message
UU issue
I attend a UU church but, lately, I've been hating it. I love UUism however. My church is mostly middle class baby boomers with very few working class people. Each time we have a discussion is Adult Forum or after service, I get interrupted. If I try to speak to a guest speaker during coffee hour, someone has to interrupt and take over the conservation. Others will barely speak to me.
It is known in the church that I am unemployed and have trouble finding even temp jobs. While the baby boomers had it easy before free trade raised it's head again, I think they don't want me there. Afterall, my opinions aren't worth being heard but the boomer's views are more than welcome. Has anyone else ran into this?
Vash the Stampede (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
1. How old are you?
It might have more to do with age than unemployment, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were both.
Tux (1000+ posts)
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm 30 years old
I think age is also a factor but my gf is younger than me (she's 27) yet she doesn't have this problem. Could be the fact she is Wiccan and church did mention being welcoming to pagans.
papau (1000+ posts)
Response to Reply #2
4. Pagans??? to be welcoming of one over another is anti-UU!!! :-)
Tux (1000+ posts)
Response to Reply #4
7. They try to be welcoming
To gays and pagans but this Deist felt as though I wasn't welcome. My gf and I have been going there since late Feb.
I tried to join a Zen group but I kept getting the run around over when and where they meet. They tell me that I'll get a date and place but never comes. Then I have to study Zen (been there) before I can go. Now, the Zen leader tells me he'll talk to me later when I mention it but never does. Not sure what the problem is but it's annoying. [Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he? Even the Buddhists don't like him!]
I do notice that many members need lots of attention but in general, some people are ignored. Then the board wonders why they won't come back.
IrateCitizen (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
5. My wife and I left a UU fellowship, but for other reasons...
Our congregation essentially ousted our minister, only about a year and a half into her tenure. Apparently, most of the fellowship wanted someone who would strictly concentrate on "intellectual" issues without mentioning the "G-word" too much.
I served on the worship committee at the time, and we were responsible for putting together Sunday services. I'll never forget when we had a brainstorming session one day after service and someone said, "We need to figure out what we believe in as a fellowship...."
I was floored, actually. That one moment made me realize that I would never find anything approaching spiritual fulfillment there. I realized that the fellowship was essentially a bunch of white, upper-middle class, liberal humanists who gathered on Sundays to have intellectual discussions in order to feel better about themselves. There was no story, no mythology behind what we did to tie us all together.
It was basically then that my wife and I stopped attending services and decided to move on.
intheflow (1000+ posts)
Response to Reply #10
18. Hey, you can't blame the boomers for BushCo! Well, you can blame some of them, but a lot of boomers hang here on DU, and John Kerry is a boomer.
Sorry about the lay-led church. That is the problem right there, probably. The humanist intellectual thing is a problem, imo. UUs say they're welcoming to everyone, but many of those small humanist fellowships (don't call them churches) are welcoming to everyone who doesn't believe in God. Very disturbing!
I think most of that kind of UU attends a UU church just so they can tell their fundie co-workers that they go to church and keep down the prosylatizing. I know you're really limited in your UU choices--like it's this congregation or nothing in your area.
It'd be nice if you and the gf could look to move someplace with more UU churches and better job prospects. Small towns, small communities, can sometimes make for small minds. I know you--your mind is too expansive for that BS. Well, you know your deist soul is welcome in whatever church I finally settle in.
Last Lemming (766 posts)
Response to Original message
9. I was raised a Unitarian
and remember the churches of New England--founded by church members who fled persecution--there was always a feeling that if you had no where else to go, you could go to the Unitarian Church. (Although my brother--age six--did say once that he wanted to go to a church that "talked more about God.")
I recently moved to a conservative Southern State and for the first time in a couple decades--went to the local Unitarian Church. Very touchy-feely, with a large number of people who used the word "empower" without irony. I didn't last.
ihaveaquestion (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
11. Every UU church is different
Theologically, some are god-centered, some more pagan, some mostly humanist. Racially, most are majority white, though a few are more diverse. Economically, they tend to be fairly wealthy, but some are not. What you describe is a very common problem in UU churches.
I had a similar experience in a large wealthy UU church (>700 members) about 15 years ago. It was in a university town that was known for it's intellectual snobbery. I never felt completely a part of the church, but stayed a few years so my kids could go to the RE program. After that I found a much smaller UU church (<100 members) in a neighboring town that had just restarted it's RE program. They were not so wealthy and the town was working class. It was much more comfortable and the church had a welcoming "family" feel to it.
Not everyone is comfortable in every church and UU churches are much more individualistic than other denominations. If you can, you should church-shop to find the best fit for you.
ihaveaquestion (1000+ posts)
Response to Reply #13
15. You might try a UCC congregation
The United Church of Christ is probably the most liberal and welcoming of Christian denominations. A UCC minister friend of mine used to say that they were actually UUs, but some of them just didn't want to admit it yet.
They just approved gay marriage, if that tells you anything.
fudge stripe cookays (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
12. Is it the only congregation near you?
For instance, here in the Dallas area we have 4 or 5.
They all have sort of a different feel: one is more wiccan/pagan centered, one is more a regular UU parish, etc. The one we chose is more environmental centered-- it has a labyrinth out in the garden in back (which is very well kept). It's also in a more depressed area of town, so I know not everyone there will be whitebread middle classers, which appeals to me.
We felt very welcomed when we first attended a couple weeks ago. This church is a little farther for us to drive, but I know we fit there better than we would at a wiccan-flavored one. It's just not my bag.
Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
23. We are "Friends of UU" (Dues paying, not "enrolled") and "cafeteria" Reform Jews.
Went to to UU for the ACLU meetings, Progressive Democratic Club Meetings, and the charter bus to Peace Marches -- stayed for the "intellectual" and "political" stuff -- and strayed into the "theological" stuff.
We fit their Demographics - empty nest baby boomers, kids in mixed marriages, ACLU, Amnesty International, progressive Dem politics, Green, Prius, etc. etc. etc.
Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
25. Check out the Episcopalians
In some Episcopal parishes, it's okay to be a Deist as long as you follow the rituals.
But as in all denominations, Episcopalians vary tremendously from parish to parish. Stay away from any parish that brags about using the 1928 Prayer Book or is "faithful to the Anglican tradition."
Kire (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
28. I'm a "recovering Unitarian"
raised UU, hated it then -- you're right about the "mostly middle class baby boomers" -- in fact, your experience mirrors mine precisely -- I went to a viewing of "Hotel Rwanda" there last month and the most memorable interaction was one lady complaining that she didn't like the movie because it was "difficult" and the High School kid right in front of me was grinding into his girlfriend the whole movie (even during the massacre scenes).
Thank you for your post.
benny05 (1000+ posts)
Response to Original message
31. This has been a very interesting discussion
I am a UU, but I don't attend services regularly here. The church is fine, the minister is good, but I have colleagues who go to church there, and sometimes, I prefer just going to service, listening to the minister, then leaving. I'm not in the space to contribute much of my time or discretionary funds I need for my mom or to sock away for the future or other goods/services/experiences I want more, but that's my own choice, and it hasn't anything to do with the congregation here.
My experiences have been mixed over the years. I attended one regularly in a college town, and while the Congregation was pretty welcoming to me, it wasn't openly welcoming to gays. It was a small congregation, and often, there were disagreements over strategic direction, which meant resources were often misplaced. The other issue is that I dated someone there, and we broke up, so I decided to check out some larger group 90 miles away.
In the larger city, there were 2 UU churches that were about comparable size. One was in the wealthy part of town. They had trouble with their minister (some kind of scandal of sorts), so they have guest ministers, one of which I saw who used the word "God" many times. As a panthesist, I felt "God" was being shoved down my throat. To be fair to this group, the congregation had a semi-annual business meeting following the sermon, thus, I didn't get to meet many folks during coffee hour. However, one of them suggested I try another UU church--closer to downtown, and not in the greatest area of town, but that quite a few folks liked going there.
The following Sunday, I went. The sermon was superb, and I went to lunch with a group of folks afterward. They were nice. Eventually, I went 3 of 4 Sundays and started meeting people. I did do a little volunteer work, which was a great way to also meet people.
There is a set of principles that should guide any congregation:
--The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
--Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
--Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
--A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
--The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
--The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
--Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
My 2 cents...
acidflower (1 posts)
Response to Original message
32. UU member
I am a member of a UU church & I have generally felt very welcome there. It has provided me with a liberal oasis in a very conservative area & enabled me to meet a number of like-minded folks for a change. My only complaint would be the (IMHO) excessive emphasis on the Bible during sermons, to the exclusion of other faiths' scriptures. I understand the method to this madness, which is to gain a better working knowledge of how to use the Bible to successfully debate issues with Christian fundamentalists & the like. Still, I would like to hear more from other faiths, paganism, and so forth, as they are all different paths we can use to drink from the same river.
What I got out of this is that the libs want a church with political discussion, but not all that talk about (gasp) God.
Yeah, they call that a democrat party meeting.
But, if you want to see people squirm, use the "J-word." THAT's offensive.
My college professor/state job liberal aunt and uncle attend(ed) a Unitarian Universalist church. When my uncle died I went to the funeral with my conservative parents and conservative brother/sister-in-law and it was a riot as the Wiccans and pagans got up to speak about the memories they will cherish of my uncle. Then they all got up and started dancing, and that's when I decided it was time to take my nieces outside.
I'm searching for a way to describe it. Bizarre doesn't quite cover it. Strange is too nice. Ah ... Liberal, that's the word I was thinking of.
Unitarain Church: No God and Jesus allowed. Lots of gays. Lots of tolerance, except tolerance for Republicans, morals, and family values.
mark
Someone once said that Unitarians believe in one God -- at most.
However, I do like a lot of the work of Emerson, and he was a Unitarian. I guess they've moved since his time.
Did you notice how few times God or the Bible were mentioned in the DU thread? And even then, they're discussed as things to avoid or to be kept in a defined "box". The last post on the DU thread is priceless!
I've been to several funerals of people who were unbelieving secularists. The proceedings are usually quite miserable. By contrast, believers in Christ know their loved one is attending a banquet. No comparison!
Soem people have trouble with the word "God." They're more comfortable if oyu use a synonym like "Spirit."
I think the libs' general rejection of Biblical Christianity fits into their overall mindset that they're "just too smart" for some things. To them, there's no difference between Christianity and cavemen squatting around a campfire in worship of the moon god. You see, the libs inhabit a higher intellectual plane than Christian believers. Of course, they haven't studied anything to reach their position on this. They just "know".
Mind you this church has hosted book signings for Jane Fonda and Hillary Klinton.
"We need to figure out what we believe in as a fellowship...."
hehehehe... that pretty much sums up the left as a whole.
Without being submissive to the will of God via the Holy Spirit going to church is a waste of time.
Bars are a much better venue for meeting people of the same mindset.
Moral Absolutes Ping.
This you gotta read. It is not satire (apparently) - not the Onion, not Scrappleface (or whatever it's called). But real people with their real opinions and experiences.
Categorize as "know the enemy". Not that such deluded souls are enemies, but their foul philosophy is the enemy. I hope some of the lost people will see their flimsy fake spirituality for what it is one day.
Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.
hehehehe... that pretty much sums up the left as a whole.
And the news this week in lib-land:
Hey! Let's spend $80 million bucks to fund some think tanks to come up with an idea.
That's also why they don't like "under God" in the Pledge of Allegience. The idea of subordinating themselves to God is anathema.
Old joke, but...
You know what happens when the Unitarians get pissed at you?
They burn a question mark on your lawn.
Several years ago back in South Carolina, my wife--the lovely and talented Foxfire4--exhibited her jewelry at a craft fair at the local UU "church" or "temple" or "hall" or "den of iniquity" or whatever they call it. There were signs all over explaining how Jesus was a "great teacher," no references to the Son of God, of course. At one point a small group of Wonder-bread-white kids got up on stage and sang a ditty about "we all come from Africa." A couple of local Druid-types had a booth set up down from us, selling herbal remedies and massages, and were walking up and down the halls in forest-green hooded cloaks and pentagrams.
We had great fun imagining what would've happened if we'd gotten our PCA church pastor--a physically imposing, wonderful, fantastic, Godly man who is a straight-up no-nonsense conservative evangelical Christian and totally unapologetic about it--and turned him loose in there. Comparisons to Jesus, moneychangers, and the temple abounded.
}:-)4
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