The lesssons I have learned from the Hurricane Katrina disaster and tragedy

JEFFHEAD.COM ^ | September 5, 2005 | Jeff Head

[Jeff Head]

No problem...glad to do so. I hope more and more people realize and then spread abroad the true nature of this disaster and the reasons it became an even worse tragedy.

[nascardaughter]

That quote is from DHS's National Response Plan. What about it is obfuscatory or unclear? If you read the NRP -- even just the overview at the beginning -- it makes clear that the whole point of it is to establish a chain of command with the federal government at the top, as it rightly should be, during a national disaster.

Another way to look at it is this: the National Guard has been federalized before without state officials' permission, as people have pointed out elsewhere on this thread. Many have said that this was only allowed as a function of the Insurrection Act. However, the Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act -- which was explicitly invoked by both Gov. Blanco and President Bush -- gives the federal government the same powers to federalize the response to a national emergency.

The Homeland Security Act, for example, states:

SEC. 886. SENSE OF CONGRESS REAFFIRMING THE CONTINUED IMPORTANCE AND APPLICABILITY OF THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT.
(a) FINDINGS- Congress finds the following:
(1) Section 1385 of title 18, United States Code (commonly known as the `Posse Comitatus Act'), prohibits the use of the Armed Forces as a posse comitatus to execute the laws except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress. (2) Enacted in 1878, the Posse Comitatus Act was expressly intended to prevent United States Marshals, on their own initiative, from calling on the Army for assistance in enforcing Federal law. (3) The Posse Comitatus Act has served the Nation well in limiting the use of the Armed Forces to enforce the law. (4) Nevertheless, by its express terms, the Posse Comitatus Act is not a complete barrier to the use of the Armed Forces for a range of domestic purposes, including law enforcement functions, when the use of the Armed Forces is authorized by Act of Congress or the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President's obligations under the Constitution to respond promptly in time of war, insurrection, or other serious emergency. (5) Existing laws, including chapter 15 of title 10, United States Code (commonly known as the `Insurrection Act'), and the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq.), grant the President broad powers that may be invoked in the event of domestic emergencies, including an attack against the Nation using weapons of mass destruction, and these laws specifically authorize the President to use the Armed Forces to help restore public order.

[B4Ranch]

What I am trying to get across to you is that each State has a Constitution. This State Constitution is what gives the State Governor the RIGHT to say "Mr. Federal Government, get out of my front yard unless I give you permission to be there. Do not come back until you have my permission."

FEMA, the National Guard, the International Red Cross, all politicians who have not been elected by the people of that State MUST obey the wishes of the STATE GOVERNOR under our system of government.

If we didn't have this system of government there would not be any need whatsoever for State Governors. The various Federal bureaucrats would have TOTAL control of each State. There would be no need to have individual States.

[B4Ranch]

The State did ask for assistance. In an 8/28 letter, when the hurricane had been upgraded to category 5, she says:

I request direct federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

Would you mind telling me where I can read a copy of this letter. I am specifically interested in the date and time.

[nascardaughter]

- The state did ask the federal government to come in.

- The fact that the federal government can take charge during a national emergency does not mean that there is no need for state government.

- The federal government can call in the military, regardless of Posse Commitatus, during national emergencies. Both the Insurrection Act and the Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act explicitly state this. Gov. Blanco specifically said that she was asking the federal government to exercise its powers under the Stafford Act in two letters to the president.

[Xenalyte]

What's to be afraid of? It's not like the gun will jump out of the holster and shoot you. It's a gun, not an SUV. ;)

[nascardaughter]

Yes, thanks for the nudge...
http://www.gov.state.la.us/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

[B4Ranch]

Would you please explain the difference between a regional disaster / emergency and a national disaster / emergency.

[spunkets]

"it makes clear that the whole point of it is to establish a chain of command with the federal government at the top, as it rightly should be, during a national disaster."

NO! I posted the appropriate order from the appropriate doc to you in #169

AGAIN! From DHS.friggin'gov!:

" National Response Plan Main Page >> Local/Federal Response Strategies & Coordination Structures

" "Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

"Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events"

The National Response Plan provides mechanisms for expedited and proactive Federal support to ensure critical life-saving assistance and incident containment capabilities are in place to respond quickly and efficiently to catastrophic incidents. These are high-impact, low-probability incidents, including natural disasters and terrorist attacks that result in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions."

"Another way to look at it is this: the National Guard has been federalized before without state officials' permission, as people have pointed out elsewhere on this thread."

For States in violation of 18USC24x and the equivalent violation of the fourteenth AMendment. As I said before, the president had no reason to overrule LA, or any of it's political subdivisions early on, or to hold any of those officials mentally incompitent. IOWs President Bush had no justification to assume dictatorship. NONE! And you've given absolutely no justification for doing so.

[tet68]

I want to own a gun, but I am afraid of them. Perhaps I don't trust myself.

Always wear a condom and you've noting to worry about.
If you slip up, well, what's another little gun to feed,
and they're so CUTE when they're small.

[Jeff Head]

As i suspected, the Governor is very specific in that letter regarding the types of assistance requested.

In my reading and estimation, she does not use the specific language and machanism necessary to implement the out of state federalized) national guard assistance or military assistance to the extent necessary for suprerssion of anarchy or control of those forces by authorities outside of the state. Otherwise it would have been done because Bush responded to this letter be declaring the emergency that day (I believe) according to the terms of the request...but not according to the terms of what has since been shown as being necessary.

Perhaps she has since done that...but my understanding from the reported accounts is that this has been a major stumbling block and point of contention that has in fact hindered the federal response in those areas.

[LibertyRocks]

Bump

[Jeff Head]

Thjanks...please see the up[dated version on my site here that includes several points made by Freepers and an additional seventh lesson I was compelled to ad.

HERE

[B4Ranch]

Have you read the letter? Did you notice that the Governor was very specific in what she was requesting?

This is to CONTROL just how much authority the Federal government officials will have when they are in the State of Louisiana.

[nascardaughter]

It seems to me that you're ignoring everything I give you and then saying that I haven't given you anything... The "lowest possible level" doesn't mean that the president has to wait around for local officials' permission to do anything; it just means that local resources and plans should be the responses of first resort. Actually, I'm not even sure why we're bothering to argue this point, since, as I've already pointed out several times, the state *did* ask the feds to carry out their responsibilities under the Stafford Act.

In any case, it doesn't seem that we are going to agree any time soon. I would like to throw one question your way though: just in terms of common sense, leaving aside what the law currently is, do you think that the federal government should have to wait for a state's permission to take charge of a matter that threatens national security? I promise that's not a gotcha question that I'm gonna use to make some kind of argument -- I'm just genuinely curious.

[Shazbot29]

Did I miss the part about buying a gun and being proficient at its use?

[Jeff Head]

Lesson number two, items 7 and 8 in your emergency preparedness kit. It presumes proficiency.

[spanalot]

AMEN

[spunkets]

You're right in that #211. The administration was aware of it and did it's best to implement what was needed, but was deliberately denied by the LA governor. There's only so much you can do in this regard w/o overstepping your powers on speculation and extrapolation alone. IOWs the LA officials had to demonstrate their incompetence first, before any overruling, or compensating action was taken, because the LA officials claimed compitence and demanded fed compliance to their demands.

LA and NO failed to stock their big shelter. They forgot there were busses. LA blocked all entrance to the State. They even blocked radio techs requested by NOPD that carried authorization letters of passage written by the NOPD. MS doesn't have these problems, just LA.

Some folks are out for defacto fed control of any "emergency". Here in WI a few years back under the 'toon some FEMA goon attempted to take over after a tornado hit. In this case the locals were competent and the feds were incompetent. They were run out of town immediately with no uncertain terms by the sheriff.

[Jeff Head]

the state *did* ask the feds to carry out their responsibilities under the Stafford Act.

Nascar, the LA governor asked for VERY specific assistance under that act.

As I have pointed out to you repeatedly...and again in post 211...I believe there are very specific mechansisms and language to invoke non-state controlled NG within the borders of a state. The Governor's letter was very specific about detailed areas of response she requested under the Stafford Act, but she never goes into the language or the mechanisms necessary for the former.

You seem disinclined to address this point.

And in answer to your strawman...outside of invasion, insurrection, and rebellion...and perhaps catastrophe...that threatens the whole of the US...yes, the Federal Government does need the state's permission to enter, occupy and take control of that state.

While Katrina is a huge catastrophe, it does not rise to that level.