Skip to comments.Evan Jamieson, hydrometallurgy (Creation/Evolution)
Posted on 09/22/2005 4:05:23 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger
I cant remember a time when I did not believe in God or Jesus Christ as a personal Savior. The creation/evolution debate was quite different, however.
The subject used to be a non-issue for the church I attended. If anything, the predominant belief was the gap theory, but not much was said about the issue at all. This and my strong interest in science led to the inevitable combination of both theories, and another theistic evolutionist or progressive creationist was born. However, while studying for my Tertiary Admittance Exam (years 11 and 12), I couldnt help but notice the religious passion that teachers put into their discussions on the theory of evolution. In fact when I raised some scientific inconsistencies (e.g., polystrate fossils, young earth ages for non-radioactive dating methods, and complications for Millers chemicals of life experiment), often there was an angry reaction and feeble, if any, explanations. I once asked how sedimentary rocks were dated and was told by indicator fossils. When I followed with how were indicator fossils dated, I was told, by the rock formations they are found in. Try as I might, the teacher could not see that this was circular reasoning!
The lack of credible answers made me quite skeptical of the theory of evolution. After all, it wasnt an obscure theory; it was basically accepted worldwide and had been studied for many years. Simple and obvious questions should have been given simple and obvious answersso where were they? About the same time I was noticing inconsistencies between the Bible and the theory of evolution. Some examples include:
How could a God of love declare everything as very good (Gen. 1:31) if He had created man by such a cruel and callous method as evolution?
The Bible clearly teaches that from mans sin came death (Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor. 15:21). Evolution teaches that by death came man.
Jesus appears to accept Genesis literally and clearly quotes from it (Matt. 19:4).
By the time I went to university, I was a budding creationist. I was expecting to encounter serious scientific argument from the enlightened ones, but what I found was more of the same. One lecturer told me that man was evolving because we are smarter than our ancestors were. He went on to say that we would all grow larger ears (for learning) and would one day lose our toes because we all wore shoes. Now the irrelevance of this was astounding and I pointed this out. Accumulated knowledge does not prove increased intelligence (it is a product of cooperation), and even people without ear lobes can hear, and therefore learn (i.e., small ears are not an indication of stupidity). As for your toes, lose them and you have enormous problems adjusting your balance, no matter what type of shoe you wear (it was part of the old and refuted vestigial organ debate).1
Well, instead of a rational debate, I was bombarded with highly emotive statements that included people who do not believe the theory of evolution as fact have no right to be studying science. His reasoning was that non-evolutionists lacked rational thinking!
As the years have passed, there were many questions posed regarding the validity of creation. However, these have always been answered to my satisfaction and have strengthened my foundations.
I believe that the Bible is a book of tested or reasonable faith. It declares there is a coming final Judgment of the human soul unless there is a repentance of sin. Christians have faith that Jesus can, will, and has forgiven our sin, if we trust in Him (John 3:1618, 5:24, 20:23; Rom. 10:9; 1 John 5:13).
If God is God, then what He has said must be true. I believe that if we test it, our reasonable faith will be strengthened (1 Pet. 3:15).
Not terribly substantive, but it's always helpful and encouraging to read about the scientists on the creation side of the debate which evolutionists and frevolutionists insist don't exist. :-)
Put me on that ping list too.
I am a rational and faithful Christian (Catholic). The following is only my belief and I am no preacher. But it does satisfy all my gained knowledge, upbringing and analytical engineering background.
All effective writings speak best to the intended audience. In the earliest times before written language, stories pass from generation to generation and were simplified and used symbolism. While I believe every writing in the bible to be absolutely true, I must also conceded that the word of God was written by man in terms that the intended audience would best understand. Jesus used symbolism extensively in his teachings to a very advanced civilization (compared to say Abraham or even Moses). The bible was sorted and collected from stories and writings of hundreds, some say thousands of years.
I point to the fact that the bible has Moses at 1000 years old? (I can't exactly remember). During Moses time, and considering the audience, it is my opinion that he outlived a coupld of generations. He may very well have lived into his 90s or even 100s. While rare for the time, consider that folks back then lived to be about 40. They expressed his age by means of his wisdom and teachings.
Was there an Adam and Eve? Did God create the world in 7 days? Yes. But by whose standards?
I offer this as a compromise. Is God done creating even today? In early human existance our very consiousness sets us apart from the animals. Our very first consience thought is, "Why do we exist." It is obvious to the first thinking human that we are special and we know very little. With a little help from God, man gets its first answer to the why question and passes the story from generation to generation in very symbolic terms. It is no less true today as it was then. Our God given brains tell us that the universe is still expanding but will one day reverse course. It is thought to be billions of years old. Our accumulated knowledge of our surroundings were discovered as a result of this God given gift of life and conciousness. We use that gift to discover and still we wonder. We continue to wonder because I believe God means for us to only become truly aware when we pass this test of life and join him. This short 80 or so years gives us the opportunity to develop an individual soul in the likeness of God in preparation for our internal life. How else could we be unique and loving souls in the Kingdom of God?
Now the bible. I say we evolved and part of that evolution that has only taken 6 days (Gods days are longer) has also provided us with the rules and guidelines for what we are suppose to do. Just to be sure we got it, God sent a man, that we would all know and admire and love. A staunch leader and politician, a compassionate and tender man with unnerving character, courage and humility. A man to reiterate and clarify what generations of humans have been relating to one another for centuries. He solidified what we are suppose to do with the gift God gave us and through teachings defined the rules of this test.
I do not believe God has quite finished with us but the bible says we will know for sure in revelations when he has. He will come again. I think on day 8. In my mind everyday is Gods Sunday. It is just his day we cannot fathom.
Where science ends is where faith begins. Sure there were dinasours. But as always, "what went bang and who put it there?"
If a soul believes that their insignificant contribution to the human race is all that there is, and this blink of life that we all get to experience is the Alpha and Omega, then it truly has nothing to live for. It is a sad existance.
"Moses was 120 give or take a year or two at the time of his death. The problem with the day age theory is that it makes Jesus a liar. He compared the Sabbath rest after creation with the 24 hour sabbath that God imposed upon the Israelites. It also because of the order of creation makes plant life survive for up to three thousand years with no photosynthesis."
Good points. I'm not perfect and don't know it all yet. But hey, I figure I still have about 40 years left to figure it out. :o)
I see the perfection in the bible in that it talks to people of all ages and speaks directly to every individual once you get past the ink making words on numbered paper. I believe it is our instruction manual from God.
"Here is your life. Jesus was your teacher. Here are the notes we took for your reference."
That's a bachelor's (undergraduate) degree, not a "postgraduate degree". AiG has problems even getting the minutiae correct. Or this fellow has deceived them about his background.
The explanation of the Sabbath as the day of rest is that God had to rest after six days of Creation. If we take this literally, it means that God gets exhausted and needs to rest after six days of work. Is that true?
If so, then God is not omnipotent but limited in his powers with the limited capacities of a human being. But surely the omnipotence of God demands that he cannot ever need to rest.
If we believe in God's omnipotence, then we must believe that the Bible's account of God needing to rest on the seventh day is figurative rather than literal.
"The explanation of the Sabbath as the day of rest is that God had to rest after six days of Creation. If we take this literally, it means that God gets exhausted and needs to rest after six days of work. Is that true? "
It is a shame I'm the only one to respond to you on this question.
It is quite clear why he rested: to send us a message about rest itself. That message is quite clear, not just in Genesis, but throughout the Bible. Work, uninterrupted work, generally has a single purpose: to build the biggest pile of money and/or reputation as possible. In short, it makes an idol of money from the work, or the fame, from the work.
Rest, a command from God, is only about getting us to STOP WORKING ... for a purpose: to redirect our eyes to Him that gave us the possibility to work to beging with.
The bible was written by humans;it is a collection of stories gathered from the mesopotamia region.The story attributed to Moses,the old baby in the basket story came from the Summerian story about the origin of Sargon the Great.The old testament was put together by the hebrews and the whole bible old and new testaments was written by the order of the Emperor Constantine. A lot of christians have a hard time grasping this simple fact; THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MEN, and mankind is prone to error. It's a pity their intelligent designer couldn't have done a better job.Creationalist should really be studing the Origin And Evolution of their system of beliefs.
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