Posted on 06/19/2008 5:20:04 PM PDT by Number57
I haven't posted a thread in some time, but my sister is freaking out. Her son, 20, was supposed to get on a plane for Germany on Monday (then on to Afghanistan), but he never boarded. He later sent her a text msg and apparently this is all over a woman.
I need to know what consequences he faces if he doesn't report soon.
Personally, I am shocked. I keep thinking its a joke. UNBELIEVABLE. Any advice is very much appreciated.
prayers for the family...i’m not sure what will happen to him, but i know it’s not good!
expert advice needed
It will not end well.
Prayers for your sister and family.
Its bad, he could end up as a deserter with a stay at Leavenworth and a dishonorable discharge.
Could any of your folks help out? He should turn himself in, of course.
Tell him to turn himself in NOW! After 30 days AWOL, his status goes from AWOL to Deserter and the UCMJ punishment goes way up.
Tell him to turn himself in NOW!
I did some Googling, and found a link that says 5 years detention without pay also... sound about right?
I’m so bummed. He’s really a great kid. My sis is beside herself.
Calling my sis right now... thnx
You need to find him! Not good. Pray. He NEEDS to change his course and encourage him to beg, beg, beg to be on that plane. He’s likely to see this girl a helluva lot sooner using his ticket overseas than via military prison.
Because he went AWOL to avoid deployment ther is another charge that will be added along with the AWOL or GOD forbid the Desertion charge. The sooner that he turns himself in the better his odds of getting less severe punishment (avoiding lengthy Prison Time).
Right now, Article 15.
After 30 days, Court Marshall.
Oh shoot — I misread that. The plane’s already left. He needs to *run* back to his base NOW. Find the girl; find him.
Did he leave a note saying he was not going back?
Perhaps he has not returned because it is not in his power to do so.
Have you checked the hospitals, etc?
Friend of mine’s son went AWOL. Said the military was not treating his anxiety and depression. He ran home and his parents held him for two months. They negotiated a general discharge.
********
UCMJ Article 87 — Missing movement
Maximum punishment.
(1) Design. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
(2) Neglect. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.
********
"Desertion" is much worse.
********
Maximum punishment.
(1) Completed or attempted desertion with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.
(2) Other cases of completed or attempted desertion.
(a) Terminated by apprehension. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.
(b) Terminated otherwise. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
(3) In time of war. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
********
I would strongly advise him to turn himself in ASAP and plead temporary insanity because of a woman before he makes the situation much worse that it already is.
I live on the other side of the state, so no. But my sis just told me they’re hunting him down as we spoke. They have a good idea where he is
Thank you for the info. I’ll pass it along. But hopefully he comes to his senses before my sis can get to her e-mail.
This is a world of security checks and clearances ... A dd214 us almost requisite. funny ... bubba clintooon never would have been cleared .... only elected official bypass any sort of clearace process. that is why none of them consider intelligence nor Security a real issue
Who are “they?” The family or the military?
Btw, which branch of the military?
If he winds up convicted as a deserter, it’s not only a DD [if they still call them that], it’s a Federal felony on his civilian record [That spot on the job application that says “Have you ever been convicted of a crime..”]. Tell him to get his a*s back IMMEDIATELY, and take the Article 15.
Oh yeah, you might also tell him to find a woman with her head screwed on straight. The old “If Uncle Sam wanted you to have a [woman], he’d have issued you one” occasionally has some validity.
Yes, the family. Haven’t heard anything about the military looking for him.
He’s in the Army
“The old “If Uncle Sam wanted you to have a [woman], he’d have issued you one” occasionally has some validity.”
Haven’t that one before :)
To avoid being convicted as a deserter if gone more then 30 days he'll need to show an intent to return. (Do not throw away uniforms, ID card, dog tags, ect.) Returning voluntarily is always better then getting caught by a LEO and returned.
Missing troop/ship's movement does make it more serious. He needs to be prepared to pay his own way to catch-up to his unit.
As another poster noted, he is definitely not the first young male to miss movement because of a woman. And beleive it or not, the brass can actually be understanding about such things — to a certain degree.
If he gets things settled down and turns himself in, he might get away with as little as Non-judicial punishment at the unit level.
It gets infinitely worse if they have to go out and catch him though, so by all means if you can get ahold of him, urge him to turn himself in without delay.
He doesn’t even have to report to an Army facility. Any service branch facility will take custody and process him back to his unit. The clock on his AWOL status will stop as soon as he is in custody.
If he turns himself in now, he will probably just get an Article 15 (commander’s judgement) for Missing a Movement. He will most likely lose a grade, and forfeit about a month’s pay.
The longer he is away, the more serious the consequences.
If he gets back to base before 30 days it will likely be handled by his Commanding Officer meaning Non Judical Punishment. IOW no Cour Martial. The non judical punishment for such used to generally be 5-14 days brig time, reduction in rank one grade, loss of half pay for up to three months. That’s about the maximum you get under NJP. A Court Martial would be unlikely if he turns himself in at any military base before 30 days as after 30 he is declared a deserter a much more serious charge than AWOL and missing movement. Obviously the sooner the better though.
Oh what do you know? And what are all those letters and numbers in your tagline? ;)
All kidding aside - it is interesting to see all the words of wisdom from folks that know. Hope the kid comes to his senses soon.
The high points have been hit.
If he will stand Captain’s Mast (Navy term) he should probably appologize to the old man and take his lumps.
If they are talking Leavenworth and/or BCD he should lawyer up. Those will follow him for the rest of his life.
At twenty, he has no concept of the rest of his life, but somebody needs to try to impress on him that he will be a felon if he does not make some good choices soon.
Just got a phone call. He apparently at this point doesn’t intend to return. He is fully aware of the consequences but he isn’t thinking with the head on his shoulders.
I’m disgusted and embarrassed for my sis.
I’ll update if he wakes the Hell up and does the right thing.
If you shack up with your Schatzie and miss morning formation, that's AWOL.
If you ditch your uniforms, move into your granma’s basement and start working night shift at the 7-11, that's desertion.
Cherche la femme. The Army's definitely lost more good troops to Die Ewige Weibliche then Al Qaeda.
A woman who would enable this, is NOT worth it!
Oh lordy- he needs to get his a** to the Army ASAP. After 30 days it gets UGLY- now it’s just damned painful and humiliating.
If he gets a dishonorable discharge he needs to know it will follow him the rest of his life.
But he needs to get back NOW NOW NOW and tell them SORRY SORRY SORRY. As most people on the thread have noted, step one is GET BACK TO THE UNIT.
Oh dear. No- he only THINKS he’s fully aware of the consequences.
Because deserting for her is actually more serious than marrying her. You can't divorce a prison term or a dishonorable discharge. Seriously: make sure he knows that he is making a commitment more serious than marriage.
Thanks to everyone. I’m just sick. I wish I could get my hands on the kid.
At any rate, the decision is his: a little punishment or a lifetime of regret. Jesus. I’m at a loss.
I hope the prayers work.
No he isn't, because as you said he is thinking with the wrong head. Knowing the consequences and understanding that they will follow him as long as he lives are two different things. I wouldn't be embarrassed for your sis, the kid's an adult. Lots of kids have made their mother's sad with the wrong woman.
sw
Sorry to hear the news.
Prayers.
Depends on a lot of things.
Could be brig time in some cases. He’d better be talking to his CO. Failing that, He’d better be talking to a military Chaplain ASAP.
It’s not a light thing. Also not quite what it would have been during WWII.
Booze and broads... Never good for a young soldier.
Find him. Kick him in the ass. Send him back to post.
I have not talked to him (he’s not answering his cell for ANYONE but his mom), but yeah, I’d tell him the same thing. I’m getting more and more angry with this chick as the minutes crawl by. Never met her, but I don’t like her.
I’m most upset at seeing such a young guy throwing everything away. I screwed my life up plenty as a youngster and I’m still paying the price. I know all about regret and hindsight and women. We all were just so proud of him. It really is affecting my family in a big way.
From out of left field.
Wish I was dreaming this all.
Prayers for your Nephew.
My heart goes out to you and your family. Our grandson deserted from the Marines shortly after returning from Iraq. He too was entangled in girl problems. He was gone for over a year but committed a crime and when he was arrested they found out quickly his true status. To make a long story short he was sent back to the Marines, spent about six weeks doing odd jobs around the base to which he was restricted and then sent packing with a general discharge. Even at that point they offered him a chance to remain in the Marines. He has since had several arrests, and has a real problem with drinking. He is married to the girl he deserted for and she has had several (6?) abortions as she keeps getting pregnant.
Many of us have tried to help him but to this point he seems to be beyond help. He was a troubled kid from day one and despite everyone’s best efforts he doesn’t seem to grasp how badly his life is going. He is covered in tattoos and can’t keep a job for more than a few weeks.
We love him and pray for him daily, and stand ready to help as we can but right now it’s pretty disheartening.
So, what I’m trying to say is that if this kid will get back to the Army and show some contrition they will probably be willing to work with him. The services have a lot invested in someone by that time in their hitch and would rather reclaim them than write them off.
I will certainly add you to my prayers for Chris.
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