The Universe

Myself | 05/29/08 | Richard Jr.

[hosepipe]

[ I’m sure there are those here that could explain it better than that ]

Don't be shy.. attempting description is the best anyone can do.. The attempt is fun and each attempt at description adds to the whole.. The Universe can be loved and valued as an aspect of this "God".. not the whole thing but an aspect.. I am energized by it.. After all some have trouble getting thier minds off this planet..

[Fichori]

"BTW, I didn't mention "Hebrew" per se... I only pointed out (as did the author of the article at your link) that the language used for recording Genesis was one of the earliest (hence less-developed) ones..."

No, you didn't mention Hebrew by name.

You said "God revealed the truths in Genesis to a scribe (Moses?) who only had at his disposal written language in its earliest, most primitive state"[excerpt]

Moses was born in Egypt and was raised by Pharaoh's daughter and spoke both Hebrew and Egyptian.

I would like you to back up the claim that any of the afore mentioned languages was primitive.

Perhaps this will help:
Did Moses really write Genesis?

[tricky_k_1972]

The Catholics believed that the individual should not study the Bible, the word of God.

They believed only an ordained Priest could define the word of God and that it was dangerous for the lay person to read for himself, that somehow The Catholic church was the interpreter/ filter on earth of God's will.

I do not believe that and I do not believe the church is the filter or the interpreter of the universe, this implies contradiction or deception where none exists.

[tricky_k_1972]

Thanks! :)

[tricky_k_1972]

“I do not believe that and I do not believe the church is the filter or the interpreter of the universe, this implies contradiction or deception where none exists.”

I should add, this does not mean we are not also moarly bound by God to study the Universe in a moral manner, no putting little girls in ovens to see how they tick, and also no using unborn babies to cure cancer.

[hosepipe]

[ I do not believe that and I do not believe the church is the filter or the interpreter of the universe, this implies contradiction or deception where none exists. ]

True.. filters is what John ch 10, is all about..

[Fichori]

"I can see how that could happen, but for myself there exists no contradiction. I think that maybe it might come into play if you believe you are studying God himself, as if he is limited by his creation, That is certainly not true. God has no limits."

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Catholic.

I guess the RCC has decided that parts of Genesis don't agree with science:
The Bible is not accurate?

[TXnMA]

"I would like you to back up the claim that any of the afore mentioned languages was primitive."

This thread began with a beautiful photo (taken from the southern hemisphere) of a comet and (at least) three galaxies.

Did any of those (written) languages have a word for "galaxy"? Probably not. Compared to the language we are now using, that is "primitive"...

I believe that God said what he intended to say, and that the recorder wrote what God intended him to record. It was understandable to the people who recorded it; and it should be equally understandable to us, today. To expect that description of Creation to read like a copy of Scientific American is, at best, disingenuous...

Worse, to require Scientific American to be limited to what is written in those ~forty sentences in Genesis is absurd.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

P.S. & FWIW, Moses was in the northern hemisphere; he could only see two galaxies with his unaided eyes: the "Milky Way" (our galaxy "from the inside") and M31 -- the "Great Andromeda Galaxy". When I can look up and see M31 as a faint, fuzzy spot, (without binoculars) it is my indicator that the "seeing" here in East Texas is good enough to be worth dragging out the telescope...

OTOH, just because Moses could see those two objects, there is no indication that he could comprehend what they are -- or that his language was capable of describing them.

[MHGinTN]

“... God limited the visual and mental perception of Adamic man to four dimensions (three of space and one of time) thereafter rendering man blind to both the spiritual realm and the full nature and extent of the physical realm ...” It is possible to ‘see’ these continua as we have been shown with the ‘visions’ of Elijah, Elisha, Stephen, Saul, etc. ... there is some means by which this ability to ‘see’ can be extended to others, too!

[hosepipe]

Indeed and the Vision of Jesus Christ (Rev 1;1 book of revelation).. as transcribed by John..

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The funny thing is, the more I study physics and math, the more "plausible" the idea that the earth is the center of God's creation becomes. The Logos, the Word of God in the Beginning evidently "stacked the deck" in favor of Life; Man was specially created to be a son of God, for into him God breathed the breath of Life, wherein man was specially created a living, ensouled being. This type of being is known to live only on Earth. If there are other such beings elsewhere in the universe, we have yet to detect them by scientific means.

But this is "rationalization." The test of God's Truth is not to be found via scientific methods, or applications of human logic as we know. The truth of your insight that "God created the earth as the center of His Creation" has been spiritually discerned, a gift of the Holy Spirit. As is the magnificent passage from Acts you cite: "In Him we live, and move, and have our being.... For we are also his offspring."

And truly, this is a marvelous insight as well: "...it was onto this earth Christ was born; Christ, "by whom all things consist."

Christ forever dignified Earth by choosing it as the "venue" of his Incarnation.

Christ is Logos! Thus all things really do "consist" by and in Him.

AMEN and AMEN!

And it seems that when our minds are turned to this reality, life itself becomes that much more vital and productive and ripe.

"...the fulness of Him that filleth all in all" (Eph. 1:23.)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I see our reality as a dimension that we are alive within. Within the first material dimension, there is a spiritual dimension which not everyone or thing is in. To those who are in it, it is virtually impossible to describe it to those who are not.

All of it is continually sustained by the mind of God, and those who are spiritual can partake in sustaining it, by following His revelation, which is the word of god from the mind of God. The Hebrews say that every scholar who studies the word of God, helps to sustain the universe.

AMEN.

"every scholar who studies the word of God, helps to sustain the universe."

As God wills. 8~)

[betty boop]

Studying the Universe is conceptualizing a mental construct.. The distance is too great to be accurate.. The scope is too broad to be visual.. and the depth of it is too deep to be measured.. The finite mind is too weak to contain it all.. (whatever all is/means).. All we can know is what appears to be the case.. which might not be the case at all.. dimensionally..

Amen, and Amen!!!, dearest brother in Christ!

[TXnMA]

"Sadly, many professing Christians have more faith in science than the bible."

Now, that is a sweeping judgment! Any on this thread that you would care to accuse?

[TXnMA]

That is as close to a non-answer and a non-sequitur as I've encountered in quite a while...

[TXnMA]

How incomparably marvelous and wonderful it is that The Word, the Son of God, our Creator, chose to visit this planet (whether or not the center of His Creation) to die for the sins of us, his creatures (whether we are the pinnacle of His Creation - or not)!!!"

What Marvelous Grace!!!

All thanks and praise be to Him!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not a single response to that testimony from this group.

I stand amazed...

[Fichori]

"Sadly, many professing Christians have more faith in science than the bible."

"Now, that is a sweeping judgment! Any on this thread that you would care to accuse?"

Would that be appropriate for the RF?

I think making such an attribution to another FReeper falls under 'mind reading' which is prohibited.

[TXnMA]

I am familiar with the consistent, strong testimony of most of the folks who have posted on this thread, and I was hoping that none of us (especially TXnMA) had come across as exhibiting "more faith in science than the bible".

Perhaps a "present company excluded" after your statement would have been helpful...

Or, I probably should have, instead, ended with, "Present company excluded, I hope...? ;-)"

TXnMA