The Universe

Myself | 05/29/08 | Richard Jr.

[Alamo-Girl]

I for one, do not feel worthy to demand more of Scripture than God put into it.

Creation Week is described in roughly forty sentences in Genesis 1. Compare that to the libraries full of scientific observations, test results and theories around the world.

The words of God are spirit and life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

The words of men are neither spirit nor life.

They are not at all comparable!

And there are things God does not want us to know, not yet.

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. - Daniel 12:4

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. - Revelation 10:4

If we try to run ahead of the revelations of God in His own words, we are liable to wander out of His Light and into spiritual darkness.

To God be the glory!

[Alamo-Girl]

It is fun to speculate on what the future holds for us Christians! The Scriptures tell us very little, but whatever it shall be, shall be glorious:

For since the beginning of the world [men] have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, [what] he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. - Isaiah 64:4

To God be the glory!

[Fichori]

"Reference?"

I should have done my research first(sheepish grin):
How was Moses able to read pre-Tower of Babel texts?

That aside, I have yet to find someone who has studied Hebrew that claims it is primitive, but perhaps you are the first.

What is the extent of your knowledge of Hebrew?

[TXnMA]

Christ forever dignified Earth by choosing it as the "venue" of his Incarnation.

~~~~~~

Yet, sadly (or gloriously) His stated reason for that choice was,

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Matthew 18:11

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10

Because we are sinners -- He came!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How incomparably marvelous and wonderful it is that The Word, the Son of God, our Creator, chose to visit this planet (whether or not the center of His Creation) to die for the sins of us, his creatures (whether we are the pinnacle of His Creation - or not)!!!

What Marvelous Grace!!!

All thanks and praise be to Him!!!

[hosepipe]

[ In my view the doctrines and traditions of men are often the result of man trying to understand God using his own reasoning. If he goes that route, he invariably anthropomorphizes God into a small imagining of a "god" his puny, mortal mind can comprehend. ]

I have always been uncomfortable with the word God, being the small and puny God of a mortal mind.. Can a landscape understand its creator its painter?.. I paint landscapes and what would/could those paintings(if possible) concieve of me and my problems/challenges/tasks..

What if.... humans are not flesh at all but are spirit(s) made of the same stuff God is made of..

[tricky_k_1972]

God's word is wholly sufficient and any time we find it lacking when measured against the fallible human methods of science, we are on thin ice.

I both agree and disagree with what you said.

God's creation, as I have stated, is also His Word, He spoke and it was done. The fallible human methods of science are not fallible science, but fallible man.

Similarly The Bible is God's Word and mans fallible interpretation of that word is not due to any fallacy of the Word, but mans faulty interpretation of that Word.

As I previously said:

"Neither the Biblical Word nor The Universe are lies nor are they deceptions, any disagreement that is perceived is merely Man's deception of himself or a misinterpretation of EITHER The Biblical Word or the Universe."

There is no innate contradiction.

[Alamo-Girl]

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - Genesis 2:7

To me, God is like a master artist and Creation is His living canvas.

[hosepipe]

[ To me, God is like a master artist and Creation is His living canvas. ]

His creation is his canvas.. exactly.. And whats going on NOW on this planet is NOT RANDOM events.. but guided planned and monitored.. God is in charge.. and worldly events are going as planned..

In the right sphere this planet is filled with HOPE, Faith, and awareness..
In the wrong sphere events seem to be random chaos.. and scary..

[tricky_k_1972]

Alamo-Girl:[ In my view the doctrines and traditions of men are often the result of man trying to understand God using his own reasoning. If he goes that route, he invariably anthropomorphizes God into a small imagining of a "god" his puny, mortal mind can comprehend. ]

hosepipe::[I have always been uncomfortable with the word God, being the small and puny God of a mortal mind.. Can a landscape understand its creator its painter?.. I paint landscapes and what would/could those paintings(if possible) concieve of me and my problems/challenges/tasks..]

I think some of the misunderstanding that we get into is putting limits on God.

We seem as Christians to say that The Bible is the Word of God, but do not realize that the Universe is also the word of God, to study the Universe and the way it works is not to deny The Biblical word of God, quite the contrary It is studying the word of God.

[TXnMA]

BTW, I didn't mention "Hebrew" per se... I only pointed out (as did the author of the article at your link) that the language used for recording Genesis was one of the earliest (hence less-developed) ones...

[hosepipe]

[ I think some of the misunderstanding that we get into is putting limits on God. ]

Humans conceptualizing God IS putting limits on him..
Or the "walls" of the sheep pens (John ch 10)...
Which Jesus called them out of..

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed.

It's like opening the back of a wristwatch. Things happen that seem in opposition to each other.

But when we look at the face, we can see it is keeping perfect time.

[Fichori]

" Er, if I may, when a Christian perceives there is a conflict between God's revelation in Scripture v. Creation he must realize that the problem is his own, not God's. There is something he does not know and perhaps is prohibited from knowing." [excerpt]

Ah, but the problem comes in when Creation is interpreted so that in conforms to a preconceived idea who's origin is atheistic in nature.

Also, a tidbit about 1st Timothy 6:20 can be found here:
Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
(Search for "1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV)", but without the quotes.)


I actually have 3 of the Marantha CD's. (8, 11 and 14)
Excellent music!

[Fichori]

Sadly, many professing Christians have more faith in science than the bible.

[Alamo-Girl]

Truly, Jesus Christ is the living Word of God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - John 1:1

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:13

Scriptures contain the words of God which are spirit and life - unlike the words of men.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

And the Creation itself declares God.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. - Psalms 19:1-3

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

And the indwelling Holy Spirit brings the words of God alive in us.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:10-14

It's a whole 'nother language that not everyone can hear.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. - John 8:43

"Ears to hear" - what a gift!

But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. - Matthew 13:16

To God be the glory!

[tricky_k_1972]

"Humans conceptualizing God IS putting limits on him..

Studying the Universe does not have to be conceptualizing God, similarly reading the Bible does not "conceptualize" God as some abstraction.

The Universe can be read and studied as the Bible is read and studied.

I'm am not saying that we should take One over the other, that would imply that one is contradicting the other and they do not, they can't.

[tricky_k_1972]

"Sadly, many professing Christians have more faith in science than the bible."

I can see how that could happen, but for myself there exists no contradiction. I think that maybe it might come into play if you believe you are studying God himself, as if he is limited by his creation, That is certainly not true. God has no limits.

[hosepipe]

[ But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. - Matthew 13:16 ]

Absolutely.. blessed we are.. and a nose that can smell... all three senses being metaphors for spiritual detectors.. spiritual qualifiers.. spiritual scales to weigh spiritual weight..

What good are eyes that cannot see the spirit, ears that cannot hear the spiritual music, and a nose that cannot detect the odors of the love feast..

[tricky_k_1972]

Let me try to expand my thought further:

God is not defined by his creation, He defined the creation, to study his creation is not to study or define God, it is to study and define his creation, his word written down across the universe.

I’m sure there are those here that could explain it better than that, I’m just try to put together my initial thoughts.

[hosepipe]

Studying the Universe is conceptualizing a mental construct.. The distance is too great to be accurate.. The scope is too broad to be visual.. and the depth of it is too deep to be measured.. The finite mind is too weak to contain it all.. (whatever all is/means).. All we can know is what appears to be the case.. which might not be the case at all.. dimensionally..