Posted on 07/28/2008 12:25:04 PM PDT by jurroppi1
Along with 609.065........
Criteria for lethal force:
1. Unwilling participant.
A. You did nothing causing you to become involved.
2. Fear of great bodily harm or death to yourself or another.
A.Definition of great bodily harm, 609.02 subd. 8
“Great bodily harm” means bodily injury which creates a high probability of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily harm.
3. No means of avoidance.
4. Last resort.
5. PREVENTION OF A FELONY IN YOUR HOME.
And yes, get a good lawyer.
FRmail me if you have anymore Minnesota related questions....I don’t know all of the answers, but I can get them...
From the Texas penal code:
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
The Joe Horn case was burglary of a residence. No need for it to be nighttime.
I seem to remember the castle doctrine was being considered here (Minn.) several years ago and it was voted down.
If you (able bodied male) are in your home alone being threatened you are expected to retreat, however if women / children need protecting, blaze away. If he falls out the door after being dealt with, drag him back in, then call for help. (Advice given by my local police)....for what it’s worth.
Talk to a lawyer.
Even a “justified” self defense shooting will leave you open to civil lawsuit where the family members of the bad guy sue you for everything you own and will ever own.
Free online defensive handgun videos that, among other things, discuss use of force:
http://www.freedombroadcastnetwork.com/default.asp?JumpToType=2&JumpTo=/menu/sdn/sdvc/sdvc_main.pdv&previousmenu=/menu/sdn/sdn_main.pdv
Basically, if it is worth losing everything for, then it must be worth fighting for. Better alive and broke than dead.
See posts 15 and 21........
What Minnesota tried to pass was a “Stand Your Ground Law” that would have given you some legal relief outside of your home.......
This guy threatened to bomb my house and kill my family, so I’m a little nervous right now.
___________________
That is a criminal offense. Insist that the police arrest him and the state’s attorney file charges.
“If he falls out the door after being dealt with, drag him back in, then call for help.”
That was probably the type of comment Hemorrhage in post #19 was alluding to...
;o)
Yep......
609.713 TERRORISTIC THREATS.
Subdivision 1. Threaten violence; intent to terrorize. Whoever threatens, directly or
indirectly, to commit any crime of violence with purpose to terrorize another or to cause
evacuation of a building, place of assembly, vehicle or facility of public transportation or
otherwise to cause serious public inconvenience, or in a reckless disregard of the risk of causing
such terror or inconvenience may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or
to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both. As used in this subdivision, “crime of
violence” has the meaning given “violent crime” in section 609.1095, subdivision 1, paragraph (d).
Subd. 2. Communicates to terrorize. Whoever communicates to another with purpose to
terrorize another or in reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror, that explosives or an
explosive device or any incendiary device is present at a named place or location, whether or not
the same is in fact present, may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than three years or to
payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.713&year=2006
As an attorney, do you find that your screen name "Hemorrhage" is often misread as "Hemorrhoid" ?? ;-)
Cheers!
I agree- those of us offering advice should have some level of proficency, not just “Hold my Beer while I offer advice” stuff.
On the other hand, if we all took your advice and offered no tangible help, well, I sleep better when I have information that could help someone, and offer it. I have been where this guy is, but thanks to some good men and sound advice (and some youthful wisdom to tell the difference) my family and I survived.
To those who make comments along the lines of “if he falls outside, drag him back”; “He would be dead by now” etc, you should know better.
God Bless & MOLON LABE
NRA Instructor, MO CCW Trainer
Retired USA Cbt Infantryman and Engineer Officer
Shootist in general
OK -— make this Kalifornian a cool #100 for the Minnesota Ping List...wifey hails from New Munich (St. Cloud area), and we try to keep up on the news from Uffdaville....
I fully appreciate what you're saying and am concerned that I may have caused anyone here to make themselves liable for any action on my part. If that is so I humbly apologize.
I would not be at all surprised if others decided not to post after reading through your comment because of the potential for liability.
My bottom line is that I don't expect anyone to get in trouble over my issues, so please don't post to this thread if you're concerned about that...
At any rate, ‘nuff said there.
>> Been meaning to respond to you sir. I fully appreciate what you’re saying and am concerned that I may have caused anyone here to make themselves liable for any action on my part. If that is so I humbly apologize.
I honestly meant no disrespect by my post, and no apology is required. However, having been around attorneys a good bit — if it somehow came to light that someone was shot (even justifiably and in self-defense) based on advice gathered at this forum, I can virtually guarantee that someone here would get sued. Whether they’d win or lose, I couldn’t say.
I was only attempting to offer a different perspective on the situation that hadn’t been taken into account. I was simply point out that people ought to think before haphazardly rendering uneducated legal advice in an actual case — particularly one where someone could get shot.
H
>> On the other hand, if we all took your advice and offered no tangible help, well, I sleep better when I have information that could help someone, and offer it.
First of all — “get an attorney” is tangible help.
Second, I wasn’t suggesting that knowledgeable people fall silent. I was suggesting that those who know what they’re talking about ought to know the risks of rendering advice without all the facts — and those that don’t know what they’re talking about ought not render advice.
>> I have been where this guy is, but thanks to some good men and sound advice (and some youthful wisdom to tell the difference) my family and I survived.
Then perhaps you are among the few qualified to render knowledgeable advice in this situation. Personally, I know quite a bit about Texas gun laws — but not much about Minnesota, so I’m not sure I’m qualified. Again, I wasn’t suggesting that you not render advice ... I was simply disclosing the possible risks of doing so.
>> NRA Instructor, MO CCW Trainer
Retired USA Cbt Infantryman and Engineer Officer
Shootist in general
Godspeed — and thanks for your service.
H
>> As an attorney, do you find that your screen name “Hemorrhage” is often misread as “Hemorrhoid” ?? ;-) Cheers!
Cute. I’m not really that kind of attorney ... I’m a corporate tax attorney, not one of those traffic-court, ambulance-chasing hacks. I basically spend my time reducing corporate taxes ... thus making businesses more profitable, thus allowing further growth and employment. I am a mere cog in the capitalist system — a walking, breathing tax cut.
Though, I’ve met more than my share of lawyers that could fit your description.
Cheers!
H
Look, I am not knowledgeable about Minnesota law, and not rendering a legal advice ...
... but, I really would suggest getting an attorney and pursuing a legal (non-lethal) remedy here. Restraining orders, etc. can sometimes be effective. I’d always keep open the possibility of defending yourself — but only as a last resort, and only if your life or the life of someone in your family are truly in immediate danger.
Additionally, discussions like this can be confiscated and retrieved from your computer, and used as evidence of premeditation should a shooting be ruled “not self-defense”.
This is very serious territory you’re treading into here, and I would strongly suggest getting legal counsel knowledgeable about Minnesota law. Pursue all legal remedies possible, and only use self-defense if absolutely necessary.
H
Check with a lawyer, Apply for a concealed handgun permit, find a comfortable handgun, and take a self defense course at a local range with a certified instructor.
Okay, I was perhaps somewhat direct. Getting an Attorney is good advice indeed.
I agree on your points as well.
God Bless
I understand, and that was really where I was coming from (deadly force as a last resort). I take very seriously threats to my family and I, and I have spoken with the county attorney. I was unimpressed with his advice, but I will follow it and consult with an attorney should it ever come to the worst case scenario.
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