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To: arrogantsob

No, “human logic” is NOT all we humans have to work with. Again, such a statement simply rules out God, rules out divine revelation (which we would NEVER have formulated by “human logic”), and rules out most other of the most important aspects of our lives. My choice in my wife was hardly based on “logic.” And I can guarantee you that her choice in ME wasn’t!

I wrote an article based on Immanuel Kant’s proof that human reason has a very extreme limit.
http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/why-pseudo-scientific-atheists-are-wrong-about-the-essence-of-science/

Just one of myriad discussions on “Allah” as moon god. The actual fact of the matter is that you can’t find a detailed etymology of the word “Allah” without the moon god cropping up.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-52114.html

As to your comment:
“Confirmation” of biblical prophecy is in the mind of the beholder not objective fact. It is like that of Nostradamus, subject to multiple interpretations through whatever Decoder Device is handy.

Let me simply say that - beyond the insulting and trivializing comparison of biblical prophecy to Nostradamus (when you find me 2 billion converts to Nostradamus I’ll stop laughing), you fail to realize something incredibly important. Namely, when one simply takes the approach that one should take to ANY literature - to interpret it literally unless the author is clearly being figurative or you have sound reason NOT to take it literally - you find that most people generally agree on the message of Bible prophecy. I’ve got books on biblical prophecy by dozens of authors - and I could easily go buy books from dozens more - who essentially agree on most elements of biblical prophecy. You are simply wrong in your “eye of the beholder claim.”

All one has to do is simply take the Bible seriously, and it very much CAN be “argued against with any kind of rationality.” It is only people who are determined a priori to find it meaningless that find it meaningless.

I say again: if we have a global government which Bible prophecy predicts, and the coming of an Antichrist world leader who fulfills a number of incredibly detailed prophecies that we are given, then only a fool will pursue your line of reasoning. And I think there is very good evidence/reason to believe that we are headed for exactly that direction. You laugh at me for believing it, and I’ll laugh at you for NOT believing it.

And again, your whole “I don’t take Bible prophecy seriously because it doesn’t mention X” where X can be anything continues to strike as trivial. The Bible should have mentioned Hitler, who was responsible for 50 million deaths. The Bible should have mentioned Karl Marx, or Chairman Mao, or Joseph Stalin (all of whom were responsible for more lives taken than one can likely document re: Islam, btw). The Bible should have mentioned this or that or the other thing. The Bible should have mentioned what I had for lunch today.

Tell you what: create your very own universe, create free-willed beings in your image, and then reveal yourself to them by revelation - and you can go right ahead and tell them all about Islam or whatever else you want.


116 posted on 11/30/2008 4:09:57 AM PST by Michael Eden
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To: Michael Eden
Human logic is the means God gave mankind to understand the world and its history. Revelation is not standard and is often a fraudulent claim, see Muhammad for such an example. Hunches, guesses and intuition are also used but cannot be replicated or duplicated.

Biblical prophecies are almost always man's interpretations not literal passages from the Bible. Fortune tellers and such are explicitly ruled out for the people of God. Jesus also tells us that “even the Angels” do not know the coming of the end.

Kant did not limit reason as regards things of the world but as it applied to metaphysical things. Reason works perfectly well when applied to the material world and its manipulation.

You distort my meaning when trying to apply reason to matters of the heart. Although it certainly is a recent phenomenon that it is less relevant. Marriages were arranged in the past and reason was the primary aspect of the process.

Allah has no resemblance to the Moon God but is described as a universal and omnipotent God not one limited to the Moon. There is nothing to the argument that because of similar names the named is the same any more than it would be to claim that Jesus is the same as Zeus because of the names’ similarity.

Jesus did not have a religion started in his name because of prophecy so the “2 billion in his name” argument is also bogus.

You must be joking to claim prophecy is a literal reading of the Bible. There is little literalism in it and only makes any sense at all by interpreting obscure or symbolic language and passages.

Nor is there any truth to the claim that the elements of prophecy are universally acknowledged even by those who believe it is real. Any statement would be met with many variations of meaning and many more claims that it had no validity at all.

You then elide into a implication that not believing in modern prophecy is the same as not believing the Bible. I would guess that there are many Bible believers who follow Jesus when he says forget about it and live as though tomorrow will be the last day.

Modern day tyrants did not kill more than Islam btw. It expanded almost entirely by war destroying the almost entirely Christian Middle East as its first step. War was its system of proselytization for a thousand years.

117 posted on 11/30/2008 12:57:11 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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