So you bought a new rifle, now what are you going to do?

Sleepless in Midland ^ | January 24, 2009

[ExSoldier]

One thing I've not seen on this thread is the advice that is you're going to practice, buy ammo for that practice and DO NOT go through your cached supply of ammo you might intend be using when the proverbial balloon goes up!

[shag377]

Your post does hit some excellent points, and you are spot on about the bench rest shooting. I would like to add one thing.

Myself, I am good to about 150 yards, but in case something did happen, and I hope it doesn’t, the long range shot will be worthless.

Rather than buying up new rifles/pistols/shotguns (I already have a few of each) I am concentrating on ammo.

After all, a gun without a bullet is a very expensive bat, and completely useless at 50 yards.:)

[InABunkerUnderSF]

The pattern diameter with my 18.5” cylinder boar Mossberg is about 3.5 inches at 15 yards with a 9 pellet, 00 buck, 2 and 3/4” shell.

With a 15 pellet 3” magnum round it’s about 4.25 inches.

I’ve measured it. I’ve tried a variety of ammo brands. Cheaper ammo tends to give a slightly (very slightly) larger pattern than good stuff. There is NO WAY you are going to hit people on either side of who you are shooting at with an 00 buck load at 15 yards.

Contrary to popular belief, you still have to aim a shotgun. pattern spread is not substitute for practice and proficiency.

Anything over 30 yard, get a rifle.

[InABunkerUnderSF]

How much did the GOA contribute to pro-gun candidates during the last election cycle?

Were GOA members organized and active as volunteers in any election campaigns during the last cycle?

These are the things that get Washington’s attention.

The NRA is not a perfect voice. In my opinion they spend way too much time fundraising and promoting the NRA and not enough promoting the interests of gun owning Americans.

That said, they are the most effective voice we have. If you have a criticism let them know about it. Lean on them. Write to the directors, complain to LaPierre and Sigler and (especially) Cox. Disparaging them on a public forum does nothing constructive. It just weakens the NRA and strengthens OUR opponents.

[piroque]

Be sure anad vote in their poll.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-poll.htm

[6ppc]

Please expand on “resonance”.

Gun barrels vibrate as the bullet travels toward the muzzle. You can tune the load by increasing or decreasing the powder charge. Think of the barrel vibration as a sine wave...the goal is to have the bullet always leave the muzzle at the same point in the sine wave. It needs to be either at the top or the bottom.

I shoot benchrest and in that game the difference between a gun being in tune or out of tune can change group size at 100 yards from (for example) .150 to .300. The gun has to agg under .200 in good conditions to win, so it makes a big difference.

[6ppc]

It is a shame that otherwise reasonable people accept such nonsense.

Not theory...fact. Try reading Rifle Accuracy Facts by Harold Vaughn.

[6ppc]

The key to accuracy in a lightweight barrel is to find which bullet weight for the chosen caliber, will exit the barrel at the apex of the vibration's cycle.

Correct, but also depends on powder charge and primer. Some primers explode with more energy than others.

Also applies to all barrels, it's just more obvious with lightweight barrels.

[AZ .44 MAG]

Got it. Thanks.

Can you calculate the resonance or is it trial and error?

[AFreeBird]

I love all the technical posts on these threads. And while instructive and adding to the overall knowledge base, I feel they tend to focus too much on the finer details.

I agree with you about sticking to realistic defense ranges.

From my non expert layman's common sense thinking:

In an SHTF scenario (for the vast majority of the Patriots): All those thousands of meticulously hand loaded tuned rounds aren't going to do you a damn bit of good once you've fired a shot in anger; you'll be wanted and hunted, hence mobile. And unless you have a safe, secure, reliable logistics support, you're going to be getting your ammo where you can find it.

Better to practice with differing loads from many sources within that realistic defense range and leave the tech craft, the art and science of ballistics to the ones who live it and breath it and make it their craft.

My $0.02

[6ppc]

Can you calculate the resonance or is it trial and error?

From my experience it's trial and error, but not too hard to work out. Depending on the caliber (I shoot 6ppc) you try three shot groups starting at a low powder charge and increase between .3 and .5 grains with each charge. It doesn't take long to find the best "node". Usually there will be a couple of them. After you have the correct powder charge you start working on load length...how far the bullet is seated in the case.

All of this assumes you start with an appropriate bullet for the barrel twist. I shoot a 13.5 twist barrel (i.e. one revolution in 13.5 inches) and select bullets ranging from 62 to 68 grains. Bullet shape makes a difference as well. Sometimes a particular bullet won't shoot well in a barrel, but another with a different shape will.

Obviously I'm handloading and I use bullets from custom bullet makers so I have a wide variety of choices.

In benchrest we load at the range so we can tune the charge during the match. If my load is not working I can increase or decrease the powder charge for the next group.

[TYVets]

Appleseed Project at http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

I was surprised at the number of events around the country.

Sounds like a great idea for those who want to learn rifle skills.

[An Old Man]

I am very accurate to only about 400 yards, because of my eyesight (I do not have a scope on my AR), which is not a good as it was when I qualified as an expert

You probably already know that sights are available for both the Bolt guns and the AR type.

These aperture style sights take most of the guess work out of lining up a long range shot. They are pricy when you consider the additional cost of the rear aperture and the fore sight assembly. However, just about anyone can be taught to hit a six inch circle on a regular basis from 600 yards.

AR-15 Flat Top
1 piece mount
Rear sight

Standard Right Hand
Rear sight

The sights on my 30 Cal Target rifle are simular to these. I don't have a bit of trouble hitting the X Ring.

[TheConservativeParty]

Extended my NRA membership for 5 years right after Black Tuesday. I wonder how much the total membership has increased since November.

[Mariner]

I never mentioned iron sights, you did.

I wouldn't attempt a shot over 200yds with iron sight, and would prefer to be 100yds or less for that.

However, the hot/cold barrel issue you mention is alleviated by cryogenically treating a classic, lightweight barrel. It's more important with the "button-pull" rifling than cut rifling, but important nevertheless.

That "first shot" in a cold barrel will almost always hit differently than subsequent shots and the differenc3e can be dramatic...as much as 5 inches at 100yds.

You can get your barrel frozen for $250. It's worth it.

And YES, the average Joe with a $1000 rig can hit at 500yds, every time.

[scottywr]

My son just won his 3rd straight state Team rifle championship and last year he was the individual champion here in Colorado. He is a patriot and loves his country, and will defend it in a heart beat.

[ExSoldier]

the long range shot will be worthless.

Actually under certain narrow conditions, the long range shot may become invaluable. As has happened in past wars, there will be large moving bodies of troops all over crisscrossing the terrain. A well schooled shooter can halt them in their tracks by harassing these movements. Well, well, well which targets in that unlikely (I hope) scenaro are the most valuable? LEADERSHIP and COMMUNICATIONS folks. Care to guess why I chose the latter? Leadership is obvious. But those kinds of shooters are already out there and already trained and experienced. I'm not one of them.

Rather than buying up new rifles/pistols/shotguns (I already have a few of each) I am concentrating on ammo.

ME TOO!

[ExSoldier]

I think you're "spot on" 100% correct.

[ExSoldier]

I never mentioned iron sights, you did. I wouldn't attempt a shot over 200yds with iron sight, and would prefer to be 100yds or less for that.

I stand corrected. See I think of a scope as an important accessory that always has the chance of failure at a critical moment. Which is why when I purchased my range finding Shepherd Scope to mount on my tuned M1A I left myself the option of using a see through mount so I could still acquire the iron sights if I should suffer a scope failure. This could be as simple as a dropped or bumped weapon causing the reticle to shift and lose the "zero."

A sniper rifle isn't the same as a battle rifle simply because the former is designed to be used under still and stealthy conditions, once or twice and then carefully exfiltrated from the "hide." Whereas a battle rifle has to be used with good old reliable under all sorts of extreme conditions and fired many many times in rapid or even full auto (burst or not) conditions. It might be used as a literal club or a spear with the fixed bayonet. Are you planning to use your thousand dollar rig in such a manner? Of course not. It's not a battle rifle. That's why it's not the rifle that wins battles, it's the individual rifleman and his dedication and dare I say it.... His HEROISM.

You can get your barrel frozen for $250. It's worth it.

Sorry, not interested. As I said I'm not a bench rest shooter. I'm fully capable of combat accuracy as my equipment currently stands.

And YES, the average Joe with a $1000 rig can hit at 500yds, every time.

Sorry, I call BS. Just because you have a thousand dollar rig doesn't mean you are capable in your own skills of living up to the potential of your own equipment. In fact the vast majority of shooters aren't capable of matching the performance of their normal stock deer rifles and optics. Forget about living up to ANY of the weapons on this page

[webschooner]

I went to a gun show Saturday. It opened at 9 a.m. I waited in a long line just to get in the parking lot, and then once in the state fair pavillion where the vendors were set up, the crush of people was such that sometimes you could hardly move.

I went looking for a specific home defense shotgun. At a little after 10 a.m., I found one new in the box. I tried to get a discount, but the vendor said that they came with three of the model I was holding (this was the first day of a two day gun show) and the shotgun I was holding was the last one. I bought it. If I had put it down, there was a guy standing next to me who was going to buy it.

When I went to my car to leave, the people were streaming in by the tens of hundreds. I can’t even imagine how anyone was going to be able to breathe in that building with all the people. It was unbelievable. I felt fortunate to find what I wanted, purchase it, and get out.

The OBamBam administration has certainly created a booming economy in firearms.