Posted on 07/31/2010 6:25:47 PM PDT by jdirt
Indonesia could not terminate Obama's citizenship. Obama's mother could not renounce his citizenship, and Obama, himself, as a child could not renounce his citizenship. In other words, the US protects the child's citizenship by not allowing it to be lost, renounced, terminated, or any other word you want to use.
Indonesia does not make US law, the government of the United State does and the United States, ALONE, decides who are its citizens.
Obama Trip to Indonesia Would Counter Chinese Charm
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=41268
The part of Indonesian law that provides that a child under five adopted by an Indonesian father is an Indonesian citizen is automatic. Unlike other provisions, it does not require that the child take any action to renounce some other citizenship.
You are right that little Barry’s status under the Indonesian statutes did not terminate his US citizenship. It is not easy for a minor to affirmatively renounce US citizenship. And he was not required to do so under that Indonesian provision.
However, US law at the time Barack was in college provided that if an ADULT takes certain actions respect to establishing citizenship in another country (for example, obtaining a passport), then he loses US citizenship.
Did Barack, after turning 18, make an affirmative application to renew his Indonesian passport? That would appear sufficient under US law to cause him AT THAT TIME to lose his US citizenship, without the US state department necessarily even knowing about it.
Maybe Gibbels could answer this too:
WASHINGTON, July 29, 2010
Probe: U.S. Passports Still Vulnerable to Fraud
Undercover Investigators Get Real Passports from Fake Documents; Highlights National Security Lapses
(AP) Posing as someone else and using fake birth certificates and driver’s licenses still can obtain official U.S. passports.
For the second time in two years, government investigators exploited a gaping hole in the U.S. security system by deliberately using fraudulent material to apply for U.S. passports.
(snip)
In a similar investigation in March 2009, government investigators used phony documents and the identities of a dead man and a 5-year-old boy to obtain U.S. passports. One investigator used the Social Security number of a man who died in 1965, a fake New York birth certificate and a fake Florida driver’s license. He received a passport four days later. In the latest ruse conducted between January and June of this year, investigators used a fake Florida birth certificate, fake West Virginia driver’s license and a recently issued Social Security number for a 62-year-old’s application. Cards for Social Security, the government agency to help retired Americans, normally are obtained when Americans are quite young, because every worker must pay into the system through the identifying number on the personalized card.
The same picture submitted with that application also was used for multiple applications under different names.
(snip)
I had my first passport at 9 months — it was valid for 5 years.
IIRC the Haugue agreement did not allow for joint citizenship if one country was not in agreement. At the time BO was in Indonesia, their regime did not allow joint/dual citizenship.
If that was also the case in the 60's then perhaps that's why she took BHO "Soebarkah" off hers in 1968 - so he could travel back to HI without her.
Good point. As a baby I was on my mother’s passport, because obviously I wasn’t going anywhere alone. At age 9 I got my own. I’d like to see Stanley Ann’s previous passports.
Would you happen to know when the Hague Convention for adoptions was ratified by the United States?
If he is not a citizen, then we have a constitutional crisis. We would need the Army to take him out by force. He would then be locked up until some foreign country asked to have him. Probably Kenya.
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If that is the explanation, then it would seem to me he is natural born despite not being a citizen.
With the earned income credit in 2009, it would only take an hour or two.
The letter was signed by a recent Obama appointed fair hair boy.
For what it’s worth, Sir John, this has been my gut feeling all along: That regardless of where he was born, the real clincher is that as an adult he might have tried to use Indonesian citizenship as a door-opener for obtaining benefits of some kind, most likely at Columbia University. Your avenue of investigation most surely needs further exploration.
I’m supposed to know the name of everyone’s mama? I don’t recall reading her name before.
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