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To: southernsunshine

>> To what entity does the Constitution grant the authority to force a sovereign state to remain in the Union? <<

Oh come on, that’s easy. Article 1, Section 8:

“The Congress shall have Power ... to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, [and] suppress Insurrections...”

So, if some unilateral secessions are legal, how does Congress distinguish between legitimate secessions, and insurrections? Does the state legislature have to act? If so, is a simple majority enough? Two thirds? Or must the secession be ratified by a majority of the public? Can the governor just announce a secession? What if the legislature secedes, misreading the public mood, and is thrown out in the next election? Is the state SOL? What if the vast majority of part of the state votes for secession, but other parts don’t want to secede? Can the state be split? Is the standards for secession uniform, or do they vary from state to state? What if opposing factions within a state come to different conclusions as to whether secession took place? Can the federal government step in? Would its courts have any jurisdiction? Must it permit any insurrection that claims legitimacy, or can it lend its force to the faction which would remain the union?


138 posted on 09/07/2010 8:23:14 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Believe me they are just making it up as they go along. There are no legal standards for their claims of secession rights. This is the typical libertarian attitude towards rights. They always seem to believe that they can invent rights out of thin air.


139 posted on 09/07/2010 8:33:05 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: dangus
Oh come on, that’s easy. Article 1, Section 8:

That doesn't answer my question. To what entity does the Constitution grant the authority to force a sovereign state to remain in the Union? Secession is not a declaration of war nor does it constitute insurrection. Secession is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or a political entity.

“The Congress shall have Power ... to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, [and] suppress Insurrections...”

Problem with A1S8 in this context is that Congress didn't call forth the Militia, Lincoln did. The constitution grants that power to the legislative branch, not the executive, thus Lincoln's acts were unconstitutional.

You raise several valid questions and I'll be happy to answer them, as best I can, but have got to head to bed for tonight.

Look forward to chatting tomorrow:)

140 posted on 09/07/2010 8:41:17 PM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: dangus
So, if some unilateral secessions are legal, how does Congress distinguish between legitimate secessions, and insurrections?

It's when you move from holding conventions, voting on secession, and petitioning Congress for recognition of said secession, and begin shelling Federal troops and installations.

If the Confederacy had wanted a peaceful secession, they could have had one. They preferred war.

146 posted on 09/07/2010 9:28:46 PM PDT by jdege
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