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To: MHGinTN

Yes, God created the Angels. I do not know ‘what’ they are, however.

My thoughts are they are the “spirit” that resides in every human being (man).

They can become physical, because God wills it - absolutely, as evidenced by Daniel 5, as you put - or in Revelation.

I also believe that is why satan was cast out - he was jealous that God created us (man) and did not give the angels dominion over us.


30 posted on 09/21/2010 11:02:00 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: Ro_Thunder; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Errant; Normandy; SunkenCiv; Allegra; Quix; Elsie; ...
First, I would note that when Spirit of God is read in the Bible, that Spirit is different from the human spirit. Here's why I would assert that: humans were created with an aspect of their soul which is fashioned to have a special life in it, a life sourced in God's Spirit. The word 'life' is used to refer to a lot of organismal things, from viruses, to the single cells in your body, to the whole complex of billions of cells that make up your body, to the phenomenon of multi-layered consciousness. The human spirit can also have what Jesus characterized as 'death' in that spirit, yet the body and soul continue to function.

Second, I would note that without time events cannot occur, and without space objects cannot exist. Therefore, the Angels are located in space and time, but we are not able as now constructed to sense the realm of Angel habitation.

Third, I would note that God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus the spacetime bubble of the universe is something God exists 'outside of' but also upholds and lives within, in the body/person of Jesus.

Allow me to introduce a new term for such discussions as these: where/when, with 'where' expressing spatial dimensionality and 'when' expressing temporal dimensionality. We exist in a where/when, Angels exist in a where/when, and we have evidence that Jesus with His resurrection moved back and forth from one where/when to another, etc. as He appeared then disappeared.

As Jesus left our where/when then returned, then left, etc. His resurrected body did not cease to exist, it just ceased to be in the same where/when of our perceptions. He carried a physical body back and forth between where/whens.

I have used the analogy of a tesseract here at FR before. If you take a square, expand it into a cube, then move that cube through time, you have a 'tesseract'. Our spacetime limits would be represented by the square. But the square is located as part of a cube and the cube as part of a more complex thing of identity, the tesseract. Using this analogy, I would call the square, our spacetime where/when ... we exist in a planar present, impacted by linear past, impacted as it were by events that happen but are unsensed by us until the data reaches our sensory mechanism and is processed to 'construct' a conceptualization of our universe.

The universe our senses cannot process does not cease to exist just because we are not made--yet--to sense it. That 'greater' universe (and it may in fact be 'lesser' in the sense of steam being less dense than liquid water) exists as evidenced by the information we've been given in the Bible like in Daniel Chptr 5 or the resurrection scene or the upper room scene or the scene on the way to Emmaeus or a host of other scenes given to us in the Old Testament.

We are assured by Jesus and the writers of the New Testament that Christians faithing in Jesus will be transformed to dwell in a different where/when! The current where/when will not immediately cease to exist, but the where/when that Jesus spoke of--where He is preparing a place for 'many mansions'--is also a creation in spacetime by The Creator Who remains greater than His creation as Creator,upheld in its near infinite complexity by His Spirit,a nd indwelt by Him in the person of Jesus Christ our Redeemer.

Human consciousness involves quantum entanglements. The quantum scale is found in our universe at the 10-small>33 scale below our current physical existence, yet our very large organism touches this quantum level of information approximately forty times per second, with who knows what in between the forty points of awareness? This is likened to a movie strip of cellulose film running at forty frames per second. That is because we receive data from past events, event we did not sense int he present they occurred.

We sense our universe via photon exchange effects. What if we sensed our universe via gravitational 'warping' of spacetime, instead? We would till be in a where/when, but our temporal alignment and spatial alignment would be very different from a photon dependent alignment.

[I'm pinging a few others because they may enjoy these 'strange' conjectures.]

32 posted on 09/21/2010 12:10:26 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ro_Thunder; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Errant; Normandy; SunkenCiv; Allegra; Quix; Elsie; ...
Oops! I should have checked it before posting. Here's a little better rendering ...

First, I would note that when Spirit of God is read in the Bible, that Spirit is different from the human spirit. Here's why I would assert that: humans were created with an aspect of their soul which is fashioned to have a special life in it, a life sourced in God's Spirit. The word 'life' is used to refer to a lot of organismal things, from viruses, to the single cells in your body, to the whole complex of billions of cells that make up your body, to the phenomenon of multi-layered consciousness. The human spirit can also have what Jesus characterized as 'death' in that spirit, yet the body and soul continue to function.

Second, I would note that without time events cannot occur, and without space objects cannot exist. Therefore, the Angels are located in space and time, but we are not able as now constructed to sense the realm of Angel habitation.

Third, I would note that God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus the spacetime bubble of the universe is something God exists 'outside of' but also upholds and lives within, in the body/person of Jesus.

Allow me to introduce a new term for such discussions as these: where/when, with 'where' expressing spatial dimensionality and 'when' expressing temporal dimensionality. We exist in a where/when, Angels exist in a where/when, and we have evidence that Jesus with His resurrection moved back and forth from one where/when to another, etc. as He appeared then disappeared.

As Jesus left our where/when then returned, then left, etc. His resurrected body did not cease to exist, it just ceased to be in the same where/when of our perceptions. He carried a physical body back and forth between where/whens.

I have used the analogy of a tesseract here at FR before. If you take a square, expand it into a cube, then move that cube through time, you have a 'tesseract'. Our spacetime limits would be represented by the square. But the square is located as part of a cube and the cube as part of a more complex thing of identity, the tesseract. Using this analogy, I would call the square, our spacetime where/when ... we exist in a planar present, impacted by linear past, impacted as it were by events that happen but are unsensed by us until the data reaches our sensory mechanism and is processed to 'construct' a conceptualization of our universe.

The universe our senses cannot process does not cease to exist just because we are not made--yet--to sense it. That 'greater' universe (and it may in fact be 'lesser' in the sense of steam being less dense than liquid water) exists as evidenced by the information we've been given in the Bible like in Daniel Chptr 5 or the resurrection scene or the upper room scene or the scene on the way to Emmaeus or a host of other scenes given to us in the Old Testament.

We are assured by Jesus and the writers of the New Testament that Christians faithing in Jesus will be transformed to dwell in a different where/when! The current where/when will not immediately cease to exist, but the where/when that Jesus spoke of--where He is preparing a place for 'many mansions'--is also a creation in spacetime by The Creator Who remains greater than His creation as Creator,upheld in its near infinite complexity by His Spirit,a nd indwelt by Him in the person of Jesus Christ our Redeemer.

Human consciousness involves quantum entanglements. The quantum scale is found in our universe at the 10-33 scale below our current physical existence, yet our very large organism touches this quantum level of information approximately forty times per second, with who knows what in between the forty points of awareness? This is likened to a movie strip of cellulose film running at forty frames per second. That is because we receive data from past events, event we did not sense int he present they occurred.

We sense our universe via photon exchange effects. What if we sensed our universe via gravitational 'warping' of spacetime, instead? We would till be in a where/when, but our temporal alignment and spatial alignment would be very different from a photon dependent alignment.

[I'm pinging a few others because they may enjoy these 'strange' conjectures.]

33 posted on 09/21/2010 12:13:09 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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