Posted on 12/27/2010 6:06:12 AM PST by Red Badger
‘Mornin’, LD
I always start with the baseline: biology. At its core, sex is for reproduction, to ensure the survival of the species, and NO two men, nor ANY two women, can naturally conceive a child. That makes homosexual sex abnormal by its very nature. The moral and religious arguments start with that baseline: if it’s abnormal, but you do it anyway, you’ve got to have chosen to do it, and for some reason other than biology. The choice carries consequences - unfortunately, those who continue to insist it’s not a choice have won this round.
Colonel, USAFR
“If this were a true repeal, wouldn’t we be reverting to the policy as it was before slick Willie declared Homosexuality in the Military to be optional?”
Yes - that’s been the misrepresentation from the beginning: 10 USC 654 simply codified the policy that practicing homosexuals will be discharged. With its repeal, we should go back to how things were before its implementation, which is stated in the repealed statuts as follows:
(13) The prohibition against homosexual conduct is a longstanding element of military law that continues to be necessary in the unique circumstances of military service.
By repealing DADT, they didn’t repeal the “longstanding element of military law”.
Colonel, USAFR
Stop by and rate the CNO’s statement on repealing DADT, which makes him very happy: http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=57818
Also check out the comments, someone noticed it was “freeped.”
“By repealing DADT, they didnt repeal the longstanding element of military law.”
I don’t readily have the link, but it is easy to find. Check out the DoD website that reports the “findings” of the panel/board. Anyway, they have it in the plan to have congress amend the UCMJ, etc.
Hopefully, the new GOP majority in the House won’t go along. I’m not sure what effect it would have though. Some court would probably just rule the UCMJ sodomy restrictions void.
And it's irrelevant in any case. Even if there were a "gay gene," it would operate at the level of a suggestion, not a command; in other words, it would influence inclination; it would not control behavior.
Every person alive has innate temperment factors which are influenced by genetics. You might get your hot temper from your father, or slide towards "melancholic and depressive" like your grandma. You might have a bent toward overeating and oversleeping, like your kinfolks on one side, or be more inclined toward hyperactivity and impulsiveness, like your kinfolks on the other side.
The same--- who knows? --- might be partially applicable to innate sex drives, too. I say "might be". I say "partially". Who knows?
But behavior is not irresistably dictated by inherted traits. If gays were in fact incapable of controlling their sexual behavior,, then not only should they not be in the military; they shouldn't even be allowed out of the house.
But if there's no "behavior," then it's a non-issuie. Don't ask, don't tell.
One example in my personal experience that has always made me think about this was a set of identical twin brothers I knew in High School. They both grew up in a stable, two parent, Christian home. From somewhere along in the 4th or 5th grade, it was quite obvious one was homosexual and one was heterosexual.
In my thinking, if it were nature (purely genetic), homosexuals would have disappeared in one generation because they can't reproduce. My knowledge of the twins above argues strongly against nurture. What does that leave? Genetic mutation? Combination of nature and nurture?
Throughout history, most gay people married. Oscar Wilde was married to Constance Lloyd, and they had two sons, Cyril (1885) and Vyvyan (1886). The gay Episocopal bishop in New Hampshire, the Rev. Gene Robinson, was married and likewise had two children with his wife before he ditched wife and kids and went off to live with his boyfriend. New Jersey governor Jim McGreeey married twice and had children with both of his wives, before he famously announced he was gay.
While many lesbian mothers have them through artificial insemination or adoption, I think it's true that most lesbian "parent" couples involve a partner who is a divorcee or who became an unwed mother the usual way --- with a man --- and whose children later get adopted by the lesbian partner.
So homosexuals can and do marry someone of the opposite sex, and can and do reproduce. Always have. It's just that they still have a sexual yen for a person of the same sex.
And why? Like you said, it's maybe part nature, part nurture, and often a wholly mysterious thing, even to themselves.
True. I considered only two homosexuals.
Wonder if this suggests/confirms it is a (weakened) genetic trait that takes some type of nurturing nudge to become dominant? I've often wondered if insecurity isn't a component in the development of homosexuality. Strange it is.
Sodom and Gomorra (sp) didn't get destroyed because God is mean, it got destroyed because the government sanctioned homosexuality.
It seems most lesbians are not "exclusive" "lifelong" lesbians: women's feelings and choices seem more "fluid" and can go back and forth. It's not set-in-concrete, not an unchanging part of the female's identity. It's not too unusual for a gal to be a LTG ("Lesbian Til Graduation") in college; then get involved with a man; maybe have a baby; then go back to a lesbian relaionship; then end that and get married to a man.
On the other hand, many male homosexuals seem to have had painfully unsatisfactory relationships with their fathers. Either the father was physically absent, or emotionally absent, or hostile; or sometime the father was a decent man who tried to be a good dad to his son, but he was "perceived by the son" as being rejecting.
Even with those twins you referred to, maybe the father really treated them both very well, but one of them "perceived" his father to be someone he couldn't relate to.
And why? Maybe it's that the middle-school boy starting to act moody or surly or girly, and the father feeling strange about him and backing off, worrying about him but not knowing how to handle him. It can be hard to understand. It's a difficult thing. I know a family like that.
But that doesn't mean the boy "has" to have sex with males. It may be just that he feels burdened with a kind of emotional offcenteredness. He doesn't need to be mocked or ridiculed; he needs to find a ways to maintain a good relationship with God and with GOOD men, and without slipping into sexual vice.
“And it’s irrelevant in any case. Even if there were a “gay gene,” it would operate at the level of a suggestion, not a command; in other words, it would influence inclination; it would not control behavior.”
Excellent observation, you nailed it. It could be said that 99.9999% of all heterosexual males have a propensity to be adulterous. Does that excuse them when they do....no it doesn’t. Because we aren’t animals and don’t have to act on our impulses. You may not be able to stop an “impluse”, but you can determine whether you give in to it.
Goodness, we may as well excuse serial killers....it is probably genetic as well. The genetic excuse is a slippery slope that can get out of control.
I have dear friends and relatives that have a genetic propensity towards types of mental illness...like bipolar or others. Do they say, “I born that way and OK”? No, they recognize it is abnormal and seek treatment.
Homosexuality is abnormal. To call it “OK”, even if genetic, is just foolish.
Of course I would like to see all education returned to the control of the State or even the Church. The problem is that one would be hard pressed to find an organized Church in this country that does not at least allow sodomy as a part of life if not embrace it. The problem starts with family, then the Church. Nothing will change as long as the Church remains silent on the subject.
I agree with you, but the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Let’s start by abolishing the Dept of Education and returning control to the states. We can move on from there.
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