Posted on 08/17/2011 8:17:45 PM PDT by DEConservative
Do you have copyright restrictions on yourself that cause you to excerpt your own article from your own website? Why not post it all here?
That is exactly what the Reformation brought us as is evidenced by the 30,000 or so non-Catholic denominations, each with a differing opinion on what the Bible really says.
Besides, God gave Moses a book and that obviously wasn't enough.
I see. I hit the nail squarely on the head without even meaning to.
“Do you mean like a “living” constitution subject to revision”
No. It is truthfully sad that you don’t understand what it is for God’s word to be alive and preesnt.
That's because he wasn't able to hack her cell phone.
“That is exactly what the Reformation brought us”
Right, because we’d be so much better off with a money-grubbing universal church taking bribes from the rich to allow them to rape, pillage and murder....
“That is exactly what the Reformation brought us”
Right, because we’d be so much better off with a money-grubbing universal church taking bribes from the rich to allow them to rape, pillage and murder....
Then you agree it's pretty infuriating when they won't post things in their entirety? The irony, the irony!
Aw, never mind. The thread’s been hijacked by the religion set anyway.
“the Apostolic Traditions”
The apostolic line, if there ever was one, is shattered. There have been so many bad popes, so many bad clergy, that there is nothing left. You don’t want to believe that because it defines who you are, most likely defines who your whole family is. So you will go to any length, willingly suspend any disbelief, to maintain this “apostolic” notion. But even the least rational catholics I have debated with have admitted that their church’s history is littered with bad popes and clergy.
But who cares, right? It’s not even about the issues any more. It never was. It’s who you are.
Church of England?
Since I believe Jesus when He promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church I am pretty safe concluding that a few bad Popes and clergy didn't make much of a dent. The Church is a body of people in communion. Bad Popes and clergy are, by definition, not in communion. It does not require any suspension of disbelief, but it does require the acceptance of grace.
Pax Vobiscum
“the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church”
And they never will. Your organizational structure does not define Christ’s Church.
The word Church as used in the time of the Bible does not mean organization, or building. Look up the word “ecclesia” if you care. But again, I’m sure you really don’t.
“the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church”
And where do you get that from anyway? The Bible! So you try to prove by the Bible that your church is above the Bible!
What do you consider the "time of the Bible" to be? Since you Sola Scriptura types rely on only Scripture (which itself is not Scriptural) I will limit the discussion to Scripture. The establishment of the Church preceded the Bible by several hundred years and is recounted to us through Apostolic tradition.
The organization that is the Church as it was it was established was founded by Christ through Peter, whom He made the Church's earthly father (see Matthew 16:18-19)
The Church is:
The Church is one and unified, not comprised of 33,000 competing denominations. (see Matthew 12:25, 16:18, John 10:16, John 17:20-23, Acts 4:32, Romans 12:5, Romans 16:17, 1 Corinthians 1:10-13, Corinthians 3:3-4, Corinthians 10:17, Corinthians 11:18-19, Corinthians 12:12-27, Corinthians 14:33, 2 Corinthians 12:20, Ephesians 4:3-6, Philippians 1:27, 2:2-3, 1 Timothy 6:3-5, Titus 3:9-10, James 3:16, 2 Peter 2:1),
The Church is universal(ie, "katholikos" in Greek, or "Catholic") (see Matthew 28:19–20, Revelation 5:9–10)
The Church is Apostolic (see Matthew 16:18-19, Matthew 9:6-8, John 20:21-23, Acts 5:5, Ephesians 2:19–20)
And lastly, the Church s hierarchical and has bishops (episkopos), priests (presbyteros or "elders"), and deacons (diakonos) (see Acts 1:20, Acts 15:2-6, Acts 20:28, Acts 21:18, Philippians 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, 1 Timothy 5:17, Titus 1:7, Hebrews 11:2, 1 Peter 5:1, 1 Peter 2:25)
The Apostolic succession of the bishops (episkopos) is an unbroken chain, through the laying on of the hands of bishops, to the original Apostles. (see 1 Timothy 4:12)
“The Church is one and unified, not comprised of 33,000 competing denominations”
As I said before, the church of Christ does not mean any one organization. People today take “church” to mean “organiztion, building”, but that is only through the modern corrupt lens. That is NOT what the word translated “church” in the Bible means. The church consists of people. I would also disagree with 1) “competing”, and 2) your number. Most churches of different denominations that I know are very cooperative. My church will happily direct newcomers to any one of many good churches in the area. It’s just the catholic church, and fringe cults who insist they are the One True Church. The rest of us GET ALONG JUST FINE!
You willingly ignore everything I’ve said, and come back with a completely different tack.
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