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To: patlin
It sounds like you don't know the Bible very well and are laboring under a misunderstanding--a serious error, actually.

The truth is, Christians, whether Jew or Gentile, are NOT under obligation to keep the ceremonial laws of Old Testament Israel, i.e., the Sabbath, the Hebrew calendar, the temple sacrifices, the dietary laws, circumcision, and the like. These all served a purpose, poinnted ahead to the coming of Christ, were fulfilled in Christ, and are no longer binding. They were a shadow of the things to come, as St. Paul says:

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17).

This was a major issue in the early church, as we can see from the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The Judaizers, who insisted on the things you are insisting on, were Paul's main opponent, and they were wrong--as you are. You have been misled.

10 posted on 09/04/2011 11:25:49 AM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: Charles Henrickson
I know my Bible much better than you claim I do and I am insulted by that comment of yours. Talk about judging. You have just judged the knowledge my heart without even knowing me, yet you proffer the same garbage that my former pastor did, as well as the multitude of pastors that I am surrounded by, when I went to them for instruction & guidance as to what God had revealed to my heart.

Paul was talking about judging persons based on man-made rabbinical law/doctrine, NOT the actual instructions, covenants & statues set forth by God himself in the Torah. Covenants and statutes that are forever. Messiah did not come to take away, he came to fulfill, which in Hebrew means to restore, not put an end to.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled(restored). Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...” Mt 5:17-19

He came to instruct us how to follow him by giving us a living example. Messiah is “THE WORD” made flesh. He is the “LIVING WATER” of the “ROCK” that followed the people of Israel in the desert. “But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out” John 19:34 He is “THE MANNA” sent from heaven to nourish them. But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’” Mt 4:4

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” John 5:46-47

You teach that what Moses wrote is not for me, therefore I question who it is you are teaching. As noted before, Paul was NOT talking about the words of some new revelation or new covenant for pagan gentiles, he was speaking ONLY of the Tanakh as it was received, then written word for word, every jott & tittle, as God instructed. To be taught & preserved for all time, throughout all generations until the 2nd coming of the Messiah. He is preparing us how we are going to live in the new kingdom under His house rules. Then we will truly be ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTIES & JUSTICE FOR ALL. How prophetic is that? Nothing comes from nothing and you can not create apples from oranges, so why do you continue to try? I challenge you to quote me one verse from the Torah only that supports your claim that Paul taught that Messiah would come for a bride other than what His Father spoke of. Remember, Paul did not have your New Testament from which to teach from, he only had that which was already given by the Father & which he had memorized word for word as a student of Gamaliel. Thus I challenge you in this debate to prove me wrong using only Words that Paul had as instruction during the time of His teaching. As a member of a family with no less than a half dozen Lutheran pastors that have yet been able to give me instruction in this area, I am quite curious as to how you will Shepard me.

11 posted on 09/04/2011 12:52:15 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Charles Henrickson
The Judaizers, who insisted on the things you are insisting on, were Paul's main opponent, and they were wrong—as you are. You have been misled.

Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. [1 Cor 5:6-8]

It is not I that clings to the lies. Paul continued to keep & teach Torah, the Sabbath Day to keep it holy & the feasts until his death. In Col 2 he was again instructing against rabbinical doctrine added to the Torah of God such as only being able to walk a certain distance on the sabbath, washing hands before eating(while it is advised for health reasons, it was not a command from God) & especially healing on the sabbath or evangelizing on the sabbath. And he never ate of anything God called unclean because it was not meant as food for man to consume for health reasons. There was a reason Noah took 7 of each clean animal on the ark. If he had only taken 2, soon the animals would have been extinct. (Ham sandwich anyone, sarc)Paul was a faithful & trusting follower of Messiah & His Father thus the reason he NEVER taught that the Torah Law of God was ended. If he had, he would have been stoned as a heretic. And as I said before, if Messiah had done the same, he also would have been rebuked & stoned rather than crucified as the unblemished sacrificial lamb of God who never broke even the smallest of Commandments or statute Laws of Torah. When he died, the tickets against our sins that are written in the book of works were nailed to the cross, not the Covenant, Commandments & statutes of the Torah. Think about it, if by the crucifixion of Messiah, the law was abolished, the law that defines sin, then who is God to judge us in the end or you to preach to people what they are or are not doing as according to your thinking, the law of sin is no more so it's a free for all society to do whatever we want. Oh, wait...THAT is what our society is today...thanks to the continued teaching of lies passed down from our fathers and God is not smiling :( !

12 posted on 09/04/2011 11:01:08 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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