Posted on 09/23/2011 5:13:57 PM PDT by SideoutFred
This is what I keep trying to tell people. When they accuse Perry of things they are insulting the people of Texas who agreed to this law. How on earth will they ever get elected without the people of Texas? Can they really do without all those electoral votes?
Great posts, thanks.
No to Christie, yes to Palin, and yes to what else you posted.
There are LOTS of other factors involved, as well as plenty of counterexamples.
The whole concept of market segmentation for example. An automobile is first and foremost a means of transportation. A Toyota Yaris will carry a lone driver just as well as an Escalade; but some people insist on shelling out $50,000+ for the Cadillac (along with higher gasoline prices per mile, higher maintenance costs, higher insurance). This is in large measure due to *marketing* which works against pure price-driven demand.
On the other hand, you have Nike and similar sneakers made overseas: and yet somehow the savings don't get passed on to the consumer, but pocketed. The same is true even more strongly for (say) software, where Microsoft was sitting on a cash hoard of $50 BILLION and enjoyed profit margins of 57%, without meaningful competition (so much for the universal, airily declaimed statement that "excess profits will bring in competitors who will lower the price"); and yet had their high ups say to the managers, "Think INDIA! Two for the price of one!"...but the price of Microsoft crap didn't fall to anywhere near the marginal cost of production.
And you can’t assume that I ever hired illegals, because I ran all of my labor through a third party HR firm to vet them. More to the point, it is the non working illegals here soaking up benefits that are killing us. it is the crime gangs that are killing us. It is the continued hand outs and the continued weak border incenting this behavior that is killing us.
Yep, like under the table payment for fake IDs, identity theft, lying about the background checks, etc. etc. are merely fictional.
These type of arguments are typical of those who which to abuse the largesse of American society by calling something a "free market exchange" when in fact the exchange is very one-sided, and they are taking advantage of the desperation of an underclass in order to lower the wages they will pay: they are even willing to go so far as to undermine the social fabric and legal structure of their own society by allowing the mass importation of disease-ridden, criminal elements of Third World countries, if that is the *societal* price for their being able to assure themselves of a constant stream of cheap, weak, unskilled laborers. (Not to mention that the widespread economic costs of welfare, govt. handout goodies, swamping of medical facilities, higher crime, diversity coordinators and language instructors, etc. etc. etc. are socialized to be borne mostly (in a statistical, actuarial sense) by people OTHER than the shyster using the illegal foreign labor.)
Nice try, though.
Cheers!
Don't be an idiot. If you believe that most people wish to remain unemployed and want to stay on unemployment, which is not exactly a lifestyle for the rich and famous, you are living in a parallel universe.
The economy is in terrible shape. Real unemployment (U-6) is closer to 17%. We have record foreclosures. College graduates are going back to live with their parents in record numbers. Teenage employment is the lowest since 1945.
Don't peddle your BS that there are plenty of jobs out there, but people prefer to stay on unemployment. There is a great deal of misery and hard times for many decent, hard working Americans. Wake up and smell the coffee. This country is in deep trouble.
He’s kaput.
What a crock. You are buying into the myth that immigrants are doing work Americans won't do. That is an outright fallacy.
Some may feel that there is no job competition between immigrants and native-born workers. The argument is often made, mostly by non-economists, that immigrants only do jobs Americans don’t want. But analysis of all 465 occupations defined by the Department of Commerce shows that even before the current recession only four are majority immigrant.
These four occupations account for less than 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant are, in fact, majority native-born. For example, 55 percent of maids and housekeepers are native-born, as are 58 percent of taxi drivers and chauffeurs, 63 percent of butchers and meat processors, 65 percent of construction laborers, and 75 percent of janitors. There are 93 occupations in which at least 20 percent of workers are immigrants. There are about 24 million native-born Americans in these high-immigrant occupations. Thus, the argument that immigrants and natives never compete for jobs is simply incorrect. The real question is how have the poorest and the least educated American workers fared in recent decades as immigration has increased.
There has been a long-term decline in wages, even before the current recession, among the less educated. Hourly wages for those who have not completed high school declined 22 percent in real terms (adjusted for inflation) from 1979 to 2007. Hourly wages for those with only a high school education declined 10 percent in real terms from 1979 to 2007.
The share of less educated adults holding a job has been deteriorating for some time. This is true even before the current recession. From 2000 to 2007 the share of adult natives (ages 18 to 65) without a high school diploma holding a job fell from 54 percent to 48 percent. For those with only a high school education, the share employed fell from 73 percent to 70 percent.
By 2009 it was down to 43 percent for those without a high school diploma and 65 percent for those with only a high school education. There is a huge supply of less-educated people available as potential workers. In 2007, before the recession, there were more than 22 million native-born Americans (18 to 65) with no more than high school education who were not working. By 2009 that number was 26 million.
If there was a tight labor market and unskilled workers really were in short supply, then we would expect that wages to rise for the less educated. We would also expect that the share of these workers holding a job would be climbing. But even before the current recession, this was not what has happening. The deterioration in wages and employment for the less educated is the kind of pattern we would expect to see as a result of immigrant competition.
You get it. Legal immigration is just as much a problem as illegal immigration, if not more so. We are importing poverty. Of the 1.2 million legal immigrants that enter this country annually, 25% of the adults lack even a high school degree. We don’t have a shortage of high school dropouts in this country, we create plenty of those.
Free Republic is the last place I'd expect to see somebody posting La Raza propaganda.
Perry not drtawing distinction between K to 12 and college. I got the conclusion he is fighting for instate tuition prices for illegals by fighting for basic need for education. He seems to confuse we our if he makes any difference.
Don’t like his talk of possible crime involvement if no education.
Give them basic education, but they are already able to pay for college. How do they do this? How are illegals coming up with instate tuition? Why subsidize their tuition?
We are educating them, but does he see a greater possibility of these young adults becoming citizens than you or I? Unless he sees that education will be an argument for fast tracking to citizenship.
And I have yet to figure out....if the Rio Grande is such a good barrier to illegal immigration that they don't need a fence, why is Texas spending a fortune for border control? Somebody must be getting across.
without the guest worker program, employers would be able to fill the jobs with American workers who need jobs. The employment rate is at a level that it is stupid to be offering our jobs to illegals. People are desperate for work and at this point, will take anything to earn money to pay their bills. Making it possible to hire illegals just means they can get workers at a rate much lower than Americans will work for. What employer wouldn’t be willing to take advantage of that?
No, you don't understand how the guest worker program can and should work (if written properly). An employer has to prove that he can not find Americans to fill a position (if caught lying he loses his business license). Then and only then can he apply for guest workers. They would have to be brought in by the the employer, have their expenses paid, the employer would be financially responsible for them (medical, education etc.). That would mean that the only ones bring in employees are those who do agricultural work. It would also assure that they didn't bring in their families unless they would work the fields too. As long as there are American workers who can and will take the work they can not bring in guest workers.
The trick to success is enforcing the employer's financial responsibility. Perhaps posting a bond should be required.
Yes...that is where the TX. Legislature came in...they wrote laws establishing “residency” for illegals (just like CA.) and thus the IRCOT suit.
They are required to sign an affidavit that they will apply for citizenship but in actuality they cannot because an illegal alien that has overstayed beyond 6 months cannot apply for such a status until after 10 years.
The lawyer on record was a former TX. Supreme Court judge.
I’m one of the unemployed. I’ve been looking for work for over a year now with no luck. Unemployment in OK fell under 6%, very briefly, and my benefit was shut off...now I don’t qualify for unemployment anymore as it has to be over 6% for a certain number of months before the extended benefit is availble again. I look every day for work...but am not among the “counted” now.
My point exactly...
“We can’t even track the ones we let in now, with student visas and such! Why would we expect a better tracking job for work visas?”
The LEGAL system —the Whole Immigration system is broken.
Fix that for openers. fix ALL of it..student visas, work visas, those overstaying visas...
All I am saying is, Why can’t we have an Immigration system that works? What good would it do even deporting all the illegals, if we still have an Immigration system that is not functioning? It just gets us back to where we are right now.
It may sound melodramatic but this struck me as blaming union soldiers for slavery because they wore cotton uniforms.
Oh I was being a bit dramatic in my examples - to make a point.
The point being, businesses do not operate in a vacuum separate from the wishes of their customers or their customers pricing requirements. If we wish to pay those who grow and pick food the wage of a unionized GM worker, then we are probably looking at 30 dollars for a salad in a restaurant - and maybe even more if we want the restaurant workers to make that too — and the truckers - and so on.
Everything in an economy is simply connected. When something pays well to the producer, it means it costs a lot to the consumer. My only point was that to isolate the hiring of hispanics - legal or illegal - as the only thing that should be changed - is simply a theoretical that cannot happen.
You change the labor component, you change everything. We’ve seen the prices of everything grow up the last two years because of one main component - the price of energy. That is another component, that like labor, changes everything.
Yes, everything is economically connected, but I noticed your free market example stops short of undermining your own point, which it invariably will. To wit people might decide not to pay 30 per salad, ergo no demand for lettuce.
Leaving aside the fact that illegals involved in US agriculture make up from between 1 & 3% of our illegal population.
Bottom line is if we wish to remain a sovereign nation with the liberties intended for us by the founding documents illegal immigration must stop.
All arguments otherwise are rationalizations & sophistry.
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