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Father Pavone Update ( You-Tube )
You-Tube ^ | Oct, 5 2011 | Life Dynamics

Posted on 10/05/2011 8:33:54 AM PDT by dragonblustar

As many of you probably know, our friend Father Pavone has been literally exiled by his bishop and barred from doing the pro-life work God clearly put him here to do.

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; pavone; priest; priestsforlife; prolife; texas
Please watch. It seems they are silencing the pro life movement.
1 posted on 10/05/2011 8:34:00 AM PDT by dragonblustar
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To: dragonblustar

Here is an authentic Catholic reaction to this situation:

“I think we need to avoid the tendency to hard-boil two good (but typically flawed) men into opposite positions (”He’s the Good Guy!” and “He’s the Bad Guy!”). Let’s pray for Fr.Pavone and Bishop Zurek. I don’t have any reason to doubt that they’re both pro-life, they both take their responsibilities seriously, and they both want to fully carry out the duties towhich God has called them.

There are certainly a lot of pastors who would be grateful to have Fr.Pavone step in and say Masses and hear Confessions in many an Amarillo parish. His obedience is pleasing to God, just as Bishop Zurek’s oversight is pleasing to God. Given time, patience and charity, I think all missteps and difficulties can be corrected.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2787836/posts

See post #10


2 posted on 10/05/2011 8:46:44 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: dragonblustar
Father Pavone has been literally exiled

Literally?

OMG, I had no idea! To where has he been exiled? Siberia? Devil's Island? I'm speechless -- literally!

Dear dragonblustar: Please get a grip. "They" are not silencing anything. What Fr. Pavone "clearly" is, is a priest incardinated by his own free will into the diocese of Amarillo, who's now been reminded of the promises he freely undertook.

Frank Pavone needs to get over himself before he loses his soul and takes others with him.

3 posted on 10/05/2011 9:06:07 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: dragonblustar

God’s not a panty-waist! He doesn’t need Father Pavone to succeed. Have some faith!

Father Pavone will pull through if God wills it. Father Pavone will experience suffering as God allows it and if Pavone offers it up for our sins, it will be blessed by God and used for only good in the end!

Father needs to shrink to nothing to show God he is nothing and God is everything. God has lots of time - only WE feel our life passing by and the issue passing over us like a wave. God is in control. Father Pavone needn’t worry about who’s in control, his life’s work, or who’s going to win in thie pro-life effort!!!

Obedience is what God wants. Obey His (God’s) bishop be he wrong or right - and God will pull the good out of the affair!!!

Keep Fighting!


4 posted on 10/05/2011 9:20:31 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: Romulus
Frank Pavone needs to get over himself before he loses his soul and takes others with him.

Who made you God?

5 posted on 10/05/2011 9:22:25 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar

Yep. No pro-life movement anywhere, not a single person standing up for life except Father Pavone, who has terrifyingly been exiled to his home diocese. Now admittedly, people not familiar with Amarillo might consider that a fate worse than death ... but really, it’s a rather pleasant place - notable for excellent beef meals - especially with summer pretty much behind them.

Let’s all avoid going totally stark raving bibbling bonkers, can’t we?


6 posted on 10/05/2011 9:30:51 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Skip the election and let Thomas Sowell choose the next President.)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
Obedience is what God wants. Obey His (God’s) bishop be he wrong or right - and God will pull the good out of the affair!!!

So, he's to suspend his God given ability to discern and just let someone above him lead him into the wrong path?

Father Frank has helped many people, like the family of Baby Joseph, who would have died in a Canadian hospital instead of their family's home. How many children are alive today because of Father Frank's efforts?

7 posted on 10/05/2011 9:36:27 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Tax-chick
Let’s all avoid going totally stark raving bibbling bonkers, can’t we?

Father Frank has been a strong advocate to the pro life movement and has helped many, unlike so many Pelosi like Catholics. What has happen to him is not right.

8 posted on 10/05/2011 9:38:55 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar
So, he's to suspend his God given ability to discern and just let someone above him lead him into the wrong path?

You seem to understand this in a way that is completely incorrect.

On the day that he was ordained, Fr. Pavone made a vow of obedience to his bishop and to his bishop's successors. Therefore, he is to obey his bishop in all matters other than an extreme case (such as if his bishop were to order him to do something sinful).

That doesn't mean that Fr. Pavone can't make his case to continue working with PFL (and I would guess that he did), but once the bishop has made his decision, it is Fr. Pavone's role to obey it. In a case such as this one, his bishop will not lead him into the "wrong path." It may not be the best thing for for Fr. Pavone, or for the Pro-Life movement; it may even be that the bishop is not of good will (I'm not suggesting this, but it's possible) -- even so, the best path that Fr. Pavone can take for the good of his own soul is to obey.

No prudential argument -- no 'look at how much good was done' type argument -- can trump this.

9 posted on 10/05/2011 9:47:21 AM PDT by GCC Catholic
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To: dragonblustar

Can someone pls summarize the complaint against him?

NO! I can’t listen to the video from here....


10 posted on 10/05/2011 9:49:24 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: SumProVita

It IS actually black and white, as are Good and Evil. This man does amazing work for the Pro-Life movement. Would Satan take him down? In a minute. Might there be forces working to silence him, even from within the Church? Quite probably. Would they be speaking Satan’s desires or the Lord’s?

It is clear as clear can be, and no equivocating will make it different.


11 posted on 10/05/2011 9:55:20 AM PDT by bboop (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers?)
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To: dragonblustar

Oh, please. As I said, get a grip.

Here’s a free spiritual hint: when we don’t have enough vices to give the devil an in, he searches for a way to exploit and corrupt our virtues. Fr. Pavone is not immune to that. Neither are the rest of us. Don’t make an idol out of the pro-life movement, America, Ronald Reagan, the state of Israel, or any other created thing — OK?


12 posted on 10/05/2011 9:56:30 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: bboop
Would Satan take him down? In a minute.

Consider that there's more than one way to do this.

13 posted on 10/05/2011 9:58:11 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: dragonblustar; Mrs. Don-o
Father Frank has been a strong advocate to the pro-life movement and has helped many, unlike so many Pelosi-like Catholics.

Yes, that is quite true. However, he is far from the only effective pro-life advocate in America (not to mention worldwide.) I'm reminded of the episode in the Book of Kings, where the prophet Elijah complains that "... only I am left, and they seek my life!" and the Lord tells him, "I have yet seven thousand in Israel who have never bent the knee to Ba'al."

Millions are currently working for life, most totally unknown. Those praying at the abortion clinics during the current 40 Days for Life, including in the Diocese of Amarillo. Those caring for handicapped children or incapacitated elders. The unknown religious in prayer. The people in each parish sharing with parents and caregivers. The saints interceding from Heaven. And on and on. I don't believe Father Pavone believes he's the One and Only, but some of his supporters appear to.

What has happened to him is not right.

He's been recalled to his diocese by the legitimate authority, while the finances of his organizations are looked into. There has been some conflicting information released by the Bishop and by Father Pavone, and a great deal of media and internet noise. However, I don't think any of us who is not personally involved has sufficient information to say, "What has happened is not right." At most, I think we can reasonably conclude that what's been communicated is very muddled, and that things could have been handled, by all parties, in a less confusing and disruptive way.

14 posted on 10/05/2011 10:04:30 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Skip the election and let Thomas Sowell choose the next President.)
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To: GCC Catholic
t. In a case such as this one, his bishop will not lead him into the "wrong path."

Who is to say the Bishop is without sin? How do you know he won't lead him down the wrong path?

th." It may not be the best thing for for Fr. Pavone, or for the Pro-Life movement; it may even be that the bishop is not of good will

I think its evil.

This is what I don't get. Father Frank has helped many people and then he gets shuffled away but then you have Father Pfleger who for years was caused nothing but strife and the Church sits on its hands with him. What also gets me is that you have catholics who receive communion who are pro abortion, pro gay agenda and the church does nothing to them. Pelosi and the others have flaunted their disobedience and nothing is done to them.

15 posted on 10/05/2011 10:06:31 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Tax-chick
And on and on. I don't believe Father Pavone believes he's the One and Only, but some of his supporters appear to.

No, its not that. He's taking a stand and for that he's criticized. He is using his name to get things done. Why do we always attack those who are trying to do good and then ignore those who really do evil?

16 posted on 10/05/2011 10:10:36 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Romulus

I never made him into an idol. Your apathy for the truth is sad.


17 posted on 10/05/2011 10:15:07 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar

Who’s this “we”?

“He sends his rain on the just and on the unjust.” (In context, the rain was a blessing, but it works even if we think of the rain as a problem.) “All things work for good unto those that love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.”

The essence of faith is that we trust God will see His will done, even if we don’t see how it’s working.


18 posted on 10/05/2011 10:18:43 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Skip the election and let Thomas Sowell choose the next President.)
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19 posted on 10/05/2011 10:29:38 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: dragonblustar
Who is to say the Bishop is without sin? How do you know he won't lead him down the wrong path?

Nobody is saying the Bishop is without sin - he may even be doing this for wrong motives, that I can't say.

What we can say is that a priest being obedient to his bishop will not be led down the "wrong path".

Yes, it might be a "wrong path" as far as the pro-life movement is concerned. But the only evil Fr. Pavone can do in this situation is disobeying his bishop.

Father Frank has helped many people and then he gets shuffled away but then you have Father Pfleger who for years was caused nothing but strife and the Church sits on its hands with him. What also gets me is that you have catholics who receive communion who are pro abortion, pro gay agenda and the church does nothing to them. Pelosi and the others have flaunted their disobedience and nothing is done to them.

Sadly, I think more than a few bishops will one day have to answer for saying nothing to these who flaunt their disobedience and disrespect for the Church's teachings.

But their disobedience could never justify disobedience on Fr. Pavone's part -- even if he intended to be disobedient for the purpose of "doing good" (as though such a contradiction could exist).

20 posted on 10/05/2011 10:34:19 AM PDT by GCC Catholic
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To: dragonblustar
I think it is worth adding/disclosing here:

Please pray for me... in less than eighteen months, I will be taking the same vow of obedience that Fr. Pavone did.

A priest takes three vows when he is ordained to the diaconate (the step before priesthood): to celibacy, to pray the Liturgy of the Hours, and to obedience. Of the three, obedience is generally regarded as the most difficult - and the one that brings the greatest crosses.

21 posted on 10/05/2011 10:41:55 AM PDT by GCC Catholic
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To: GCC Catholic

Good point. I just get mad at the injustices that go on.


22 posted on 10/05/2011 10:42:17 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar; Tax-chick
Let's keep a few things in mind here:

I would suggest that we all join him in that respectful spirit.

May the Lord guide this good priest, and this good Bishop.

23 posted on 10/05/2011 11:17:19 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Honorable Mention for Honorable Mensches.)
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To: dragonblustar
Fr. Pavone is not being "literally exiled."

It is the exact, precise, 180-degree opposite of exile: it is homecoming.

24 posted on 10/05/2011 11:20:58 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Honorable Mention for Honorable Mensches.)
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To: bboop

“It is clear as clear can be, and no equivocating will make it different”

Clear as it can be....from a few articles on the Internet?

To what *equivocating* do you refer?

“Might there be forces working to silence him, even from within the Church?”

Of course! After all the Church is made up of sinners. Fortunately, the lives of the great saints and the Teaching of the Church give us all models as to how to handle such an occurrence.

“The Oblates will show great respect for the Superior, seeing God in him and revering him as a spokesman of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when they are given corrections or advice, they should avoid thinking that this is done through emotion or ill will; on the contrary, they should be convinced that it is a true sign of love for them and of a desire to see them persevere in their vocation and attain a high degree of holiness.” (St. Francis de Sales)


25 posted on 10/05/2011 12:48:26 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: bboop

“It IS actually black and white, as are Good and Evil.”

What is the difference between mortal and venial sin if that is true?

Why did God willingly sacrifice death for us and why does He ask us to follow His example?

Sometimes, because God’s ways are higher than our ways, we don’t always see how profoundly He is working in our best interest.


26 posted on 10/05/2011 1:00:40 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Tax-chick

I love this line especially:

Thy hand in all things I behold, and all things in Thy hand.

I Look to Thee in Every Need

I look to Thee in every need, and never look in vain;
I feel Thy strong and tender love, and all is well again.
The thought of Thee is mightier far than sin and pain and sorrow are.

Discouraged in the work of life, disheartened by its load,
Shamed by its failures or its fears, I sink beside the road.
But let me only think of Thee and then new heart springs up in me.

Thy calmness bends serene above, my restlessness to still;
Around me flows Thy quickening life, to nerve my faltering will.
Thy presence fills my solitude, Thy providence turns all to good.

Enfolded deep in Thy dear love, held in Thy law, I stand;
Thy hand in all things I behold, and all things in Thy hand.
Thou leadest me by unsought ways, and turn my mourning into praise.

- Samuel Longfellow


27 posted on 10/05/2011 1:03:08 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah

Thank you, that was lovely.


28 posted on 10/05/2011 2:31:06 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Skip the election and let Thomas Sowell choose the next President.)
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To: dragonblustar; narses; Pyro7480; NYer; Salvation
"This bishop is conducting psychological warfare against Father Frank. And I think what he is trying to do, it's pretty clear to me, he's trying to keep this pressure up on Fr. Frank, and force Fr. Frank to become disobedient. That's what he's trying to do. And then he'll be able to stand up and say, 'You see, I told you this was a bad priest. He's disobedient. Now you see what I'm talking about.' He's trying to force him into that position."
-- Prolife activist Mark Crutcher reporting on his visit with Fr. Frank Pavone (13:20 - 13:50 of Youtube video)

Dragonblustar: Thank you very much for posting this interview. I can tell by their comments that not one of your critics has taken the time to hear what Mark Crutcher has said.

I am not endorsing Crutcher's opinions carte blanche -- he himself admits that Fr. Pavone would disagree with the conclusion quoted above.

But, that said, I find many of Bishop Zurek's actions troubling.
* Repeatedly stating the falsehood that Fr. Pavone has been suspended from priestly duties.
* Refusing to allow Fr. Pavone to see his doctor.
* Refusing to allow Fr. Pavone to speak to his parents.
* Refusing to allow Fr. Pavone to speak to the Amarillo diocese Vicar of Priests.
* Making extremely public accusations against Fr. Pavone, then leaving the country for two weeks, and since he has returned neither meeting with Fr. Pavone nor answering questions posed by third parties inquiring on Fr. Pavone's behalf.

I would encourage your critics to take a few minutes and watch the interview. At the very least, they would know what you and Cructher mean by "exiled" -- which may be an exaggeration, but is only one small accusation leveled by Crutcher.

29 posted on 10/05/2011 8:15:35 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aFlVhD5Npc
30 posted on 10/05/2011 8:21:17 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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To: Dajjal

Thank you Dajjal. I appreciate that.

I just don’t understand the attacks against Father Frank from Freepers. He’s done a lot of good and they don’t even want to look at what is happening to him.


31 posted on 10/06/2011 8:27:52 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Have you seen the video I posted?
I just find the actions of Bishop Zurek to be quite disturbing.


32 posted on 10/06/2011 8:31:11 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar
Yes,I did; but I think Crutcher's accusations are dubious.

Since returning to Amarillo, Fr. Pavone has not at all been held incommunicado- the allegation is insupportable. Fr. Pavone has continued to use social media to promote Priests for Life events and causes. He recently had his organization send a four-page solicitation letter to donors. The Sept. 22 appeal was sent via overnight UPS courier services, according to a National Catholic Reporter story published Monday. He asked the donors to respond to him, and indicated no problems with incoming or outgoing communications.

Bishop Zurek has repeatedly confirmed that Fr.Pavone remains a priest in good standing, clarifying that he was "suspended" only from activities outside of the Diocese of Amarillo---notsuspended from his priestly faculties. And the bishop has not alleged fiscal impropriety, according to information from the diocese.

I think that Greg Cunningham, Troy Newman and Mark Crutcher ---motivated by their sincere love for Fr. Pavone and their concern for the prolife mission--- may nevertheless have inadvertently hurt Fr.Pavone. They claim Bishop Zurek is trying to "force" Fr. Pavone into disobedience. This is really a rash judgment, since it imputes malice on the part of Bishop Zurek ---a grave slander unless they have the supernatural power to read souls --- and it drives a wedge between Fr. Pavone and his spiritual father, to whom he is striving to remain loyal in accordance with his sacred vows.

33 posted on 10/06/2011 9:11:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (La paciencia todo lo alcanza. Solo Dios basta.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Fr. Pavone has continued to use social media to promote Priests for Life events and causes.

I get his updates along with Dr. Alveda King and I know with Dr. King, she has someone post updates for her. I don't know if Father Pavone has someone doing the same for him as well.

The only priest that I know of that actually posts their own comments are my friends on FB. I don't want to name names here but if you'd like, I can email them to you.

34 posted on 10/06/2011 10:49:10 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I’m just a bit concerned about what’s going on. I know there are many people out there, especially the family of baby Joseph who are appreciative of what Father Pavone did for them. I don’t understand why so many here want to attack Pavone. They say its idol worship of him but its not. I get ticked because it takes a lot of courage to stand up for the truth. ( I wish more people would take a stand. )

There are a ton of liberals in the catholic church that’s making it hard for some priests to speak out, plus the media is quick to condemn them for the slightest infraction. I wish conservative catholics would support some of those priests instead of quickly tossing them on the fire like the liberals want us to.


35 posted on 10/06/2011 10:56:19 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar
If you have the names of any FReepers who are "attacking" Fr. Pavone or "throwing him on the fire,"-- send me the names and I will go after them with hammer and tongs. I will personally pound them with a rhetorical 10-pound rail-splitting maul.

But I have not seen ANYBODY attacking Fr. Pavone. On the contrary, we all value his outstanding work, and we view with admiration the way he is keeping his vows, obeying his bishop, and giving service to Christ's Church with his priestly ministry.

It is you who imply that all this constitutes "attacking" him.

Such language is hardly accurate or helpful.

36 posted on 10/06/2011 12:16:36 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It is you who imply that all this constitutes "attacking" him.Such language is hardly accurate or helpful.

From Mr. Get a Grip: Frank Pavone needs to get over himself before he loses his soul and takes others with him.

Why would Father Pavone need to "get over himself" before he loses his soul?

37 posted on 10/06/2011 2:40:10 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Romulus
"From Mr. Get a Grip: Frank Pavone needs to get over himself before he loses his soul and takes others with him."

Why would Father Pavone need to "get over himself" before he loses his soul?


Romulus? I think the above question was directed to you.
38 posted on 10/07/2011 5:04:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: dragonblustar; Mrs. Don-o

I don’t think Mrs Don-o should be made to answer for me.

I am the one who said Fr. Pavone needs to get a grip. It’s a common expression, which means to dial back one’s emotional engagement in a situation, the better to consider it rationally and judiciously.

Do I know for a fact that Fr. Pavone is emotionally overwrought to a degree that has clouded his judgment? Actually, I don’t. He could be coolly engaged in irresponsible rhetoric, to cloud the judgment of others. At this time, I choose not to believe that. I believe it more charitable to believe that one has temporarily lost control of his passions, than to believe he has set out to manipulate and deceive others.

Bishop Zurek has not handled this affair blamelessly, I think most observers will agree. But he is the bishop, and does have certain rights which Fr. Pavone must respect not only in outward, technical senses, but in his heart. This is grave matter, for Fr. Pavone and for those looking to him as a moral exemplar. That’s why I say that souls are at risk.

It is a spiritual work of mercy to bear wrongs patiently. Let’s all remember that. Pass it on to your priest friends if you like.


39 posted on 10/07/2011 7:37:36 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Romulus

That was well said.


40 posted on 10/07/2011 11:06:13 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men of our day is the restatement of the obvious. " - George Orwell)
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To: bboop

Well said.


41 posted on 10/09/2011 2:01:39 AM PDT by Dr. White
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To: Romulus
"This is grave matter"

"souls are at risk"

Calm down and get a grip.

42 posted on 10/09/2011 2:05:20 AM PDT by Dr. White
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To: Dr. White

Run along, sonny. The grownups are trying to talk.


43 posted on 10/10/2011 7:31:34 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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