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And So It Ends For Argentina (Lessons for America)
The Modern Survivalist ^ | Oct. 25, 2011 | Fernando Aguirre

Posted on 10/25/2011 5:44:35 AM PDT by Travis McGee

In spite of having a healthy sized ego I’ve always known my limitations. Even though I’ve been writing about survival and preparedness for many years on daily basis I’ve never considered myself a writer, not even a mediocre one. I know what a writer is and I know I’m not one. I’ve read the work of excellent ones, and I know I just lack that art. I am though a somewhat acceptable story teller, and that’s how I managed to write a book that people can relate to, can learn the lessons I want to transmit and read it without deciding to use it for tinder after ten pages. The most recurrent topic in my blog has been preparedness stories and anecdotes, specifically oriented towards real world survival events and how the people of my country managed to get up, shake off the dust and continue in spite of what this country throws at us.

Some of the events I’ve written about have been hard to digest. Even though I’m firmly against the doom and gloom fascination so common in the survival and preparedness world, there’s times when you just have to tell it as it is. You can’t disguise the death of a person you know, or relate incidents of crime and violence looking through pink-shaded glasses because one extreme is just as bad as the other. The nature of the topics discussed here are serious, sometimes matters of life and death, so that’s why to a certain nouvel readership it might seem dark to read. Even with a pragmatic eye and objective point of view none of this reads like a walk in the park.

As I write this, I can’t avoid feeling two very clear sensations. The first one I can only explain by saying that it’s like stepping out of a boat just as it finishes its slow, decadent sinking and finally goes under the surface. The second one is genuine sadness. Of all the posts I’ve written, this is without a doubt the saddest one I’ve written. I’m not talking about the loss of culture, standards of living or the death of a friend. Its not about the starvation of children of violence towards people close to me. It’s about all that and more. It’s about the death of a country itself.

As the press all over the world talks about the political success of the current administration, and mentions the “flourishing”, prosperous Argentina, a clear minority which I’m part of sees things differently. It makes you wonder and ask yourself a few other things as well. Who writes all these praises? What kind of data do they use to make such positive statements? How can a country be booming economically, yet keeps having shantytowns grow at an accelerating rate, poverty, misery and decadence never backing down one inch, and the 3rd greatest inflation in the planet as the icing on the cake? After reading some of the emails people sent me on the “success” of Argentina, I wonder if its just innocent stupidity, lack of professionalism or if there’s more to it than meets the eye and there are other intentions behind it.

Argentina was fatally wounded almost ten years ago and Argentina as I knew it died yesterday, October 23, 2011, when Ms. Kirchner was re-elected with over 50% of the votes, gaining complete control of the country. She now controls the executive of course, but also the congress, unions and even the media through the Kirchner Media Law. The headlines of the world consider this something of a surprise, a small number of Argentines such as myself consider this the culmination of a decade long process that started with the destruction of opposing parties by any means, legal or not, the indoctrination of the generations to come through several channels including the mandatory “Citizen Formation Studies” in schools and even an officially approved version of history. It seems insane, but the “History” I was taught twenty years ago is different from the one my son is taught, much worse, its different from the recent history I SAW with my own eyes.

One can only wonder how can such an authoritarian leader earn so much public support? Wasn’t it bad enough when they controlled the media through an unconstitutional law, or what about our retirement funds begin stolen (nationalized) right in our faces?

How Did This happen?

The process was long and patient at some times, brutal at others. People from other parties or simply with different views suddenly found themselves facing various charges or harassment. People that didn’t play along simply didn’t end up well, and by that it includes every possible end you can think of. Soon enough politicians that used to be the opposition ended up siding with the ruling K party. Journalists and political analysts that didn’t play ball would be threatened to remind them of their position, or eventually found themselves unemployed and no one willing to hire them. The young adult sector was dealt with by the son of the Kirchner’s, Maximo. He formed “the young Ks”, with their leaders grouped in an organization called “La Campora”.La Campora was formed by friends of the son’s president, at times such a useless and lazy gang, not even Nestor Kirchner himself could place them in the positions they wanted on occasions. During a meeting with the Young K leaders he’s quoted to have said” guys, guys, you come here asking for positions of power and management, but you don’t even have a high school diploma for me”. Almost like a Homer Simpson parody, even the slightest degree of competence would place you in charge of an area of the government or in charge of a recently “nationalized” company, like when they took back “Aerolineas Argentinas” airlines from the Spaniards.

As for the rest of the population, nothing has ever worked as well for the peronist party as keeping those families poor and numerous, and the Ks repeat that same recipe. The handouts for one reason or another make sure those votes keep coming. Handouts per child, for political support, its all there if you show up to the rallies or protest against the companies that aren’t “team players” with the government. If you are a company owner, in the legal or illegal pharmaceutical business, a good amount of donations will go a long way in ensuring the health of your business. Where does the money come from? Stealing the retirement funds helped, so does sucking the blood out of what’s left of the middle class through taxes, but the key is Argentina’s Green Gold: Soy. In a world in crisis commodities such as soy are expensive. What did the K’s do? Take so much from the farmers through taxes with no regard to the future, so that today the land almost grows soy exclusively. In agricultural terms this is madness but they are doing it anyway. Get rid of everything, cattle, other agro, just plant soy. Soy kills the land and ten years from now we’re looking at a food crisis, but who cares? The amount of pesticides used already has consequences with child mortality and significant amount of malformations. No one seems to care.

But the most brilliant part of this evil plan was the children, the generations to come. Political brainwashing thanks to the mandatory citizen formation classes, combined with the iron grip on the media that ensured the famous in the showbiz which the uneducated masses follow play along supporting the Ks, all this “work” had its results eventually. This was complimented with an extreme liberal agenda, from gay marriage and adoption to the official nod to drug abuse. Keep in mind that this has been going on for a decade now. It was first four years of Nestor K, then four more of Cristina K during which Nestor died. Now its four more of Cristina K, and the first generation of indoctrinated kids finally had a chance to vote in these elections.

Don’t repeat Our Mistakes

Ms. K won with over half the country voting for her. This may appear to be a triumph of Democracy. You have to wonder though, if it really is a democracy after everything that has happened, including the sharing of power between husband and wife to extend their period in power. Hugo Chavez was voted at some time into office. So was Hitler.

Many people consider what happened to Argentina after its economic collapse to be a window into the possible future of USA. In many ways and in spite of the differences I do think it is. I do see so many of the similarities that I feel encouraged to make certain warnings which followers of my blog read time and again. One of them is being watchful of the calamity of crime and the suffering it causes. Argentina is already becoming like Venezuela in that area as well.

The one I want to make sure people listen to in this case is to please be careful of authoritarian governments. They sprout and grow within the political system and government structure during hard times like we’ve seen it happen so many times in the past, in different countries at different times. Never forget Hitler got voted into office thanks to the desperation of the Germans just wanting to believe the promises after so much economic struggling. Argentines would hand over a freaking crown to this woman if she asked for one, but they already gave her so much more than that. Please learn from our experience in this as well. Never give more power to a president than the one he should have. Remember that he’s always an employee of the people, and not the other way around. Punish authoritarianism by taking action, talking with your representatives and remembering it when its time to vote once again.

USA has real hope in its Tea Party movement and politicians like Ron Paul. Support them. Support movements like the Appleseed Project, those are great folks that teach a key part of the TRUE history of the United States and not a sanitized politically correct version.

Take care everyone,

FerFAL


TOPICS: Government; Society
KEYWORDS: argentina; cwiiping; obamadream
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Fernando Aguirre is the author of "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse," which I strongly recommend.


1 posted on 10/25/2011 5:44:40 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: FerFAL308; Eaker; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ApesForEvolution; ...
CW2 Ping

Posted to the CW2 list as an example of how a country slides into socialist tyranny.

Many lessons applicable to America's near future may be learned from studying the cases of Venezuela, and now Argentina.

2 posted on 10/25/2011 5:47:43 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Sounds a lot like what has happened here.

The Wife and I have followed this guy’s tips for survivng economic downturns, Sad to see it’s almost hopeless.


3 posted on 10/25/2011 5:49:08 AM PDT by wolfcreek (Perry to Obama: Adios, MOFO!)
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To: FerFAL308; Eaker; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ApesForEvolution; ...
CW2 Ping

Posted to the CW2 list as an example of how a country slides into socialist tyranny.

Many lessons applicable to America's near future may be learned from studying the cases of Venezuela, and now Argentina.

4 posted on 10/25/2011 5:49:21 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: OKSooner

Read tonite.


5 posted on 10/25/2011 5:51:41 AM PDT by OKSooner ("Get a brain, morans!!")
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To: Travis McGee

Kirchner?

Leftovers from the run-away Nazis?


6 posted on 10/25/2011 5:54:47 AM PDT by wolfcreek (Perry to Obama: Adios, MOFO!)
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To: Travis McGee

“Personality Cult”


7 posted on 10/25/2011 5:59:56 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: wolfcreek

—Sad to see it’s almost hopeless.—

If you read the book of revelation, you will find that “it” IS hopeless. But in the end there is victory.

Life is a mist.


8 posted on 10/25/2011 6:01:30 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Travis McGee

Ping for later, depressing reading.


9 posted on 10/25/2011 6:02:15 AM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Travis McGee
Chavez, Kirchner, Obama - many similarities.
10 posted on 10/25/2011 6:03:19 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Travis McGee

And those there are, in large part, unable to stop the slide into oblivion, or unwilling to take the extreme measures required to.


11 posted on 10/25/2011 6:05:07 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Travis McGee

As you have pointed out elsewhere, the US lacks the cultural cohesion that kept Argentina from descending into total chaos and nightmare a decade ago. As Fernando shows, at some point, even that cultural bond can be eroded and eventually eliminated in just the manner he describes. We can see that happening here.

For America, the consequences are and will be dire. Some of us can see it coming. Most of us don’t. There’s a real possibility for a ‘civilizational collapse.’ Won’t be the first. Nor will it be the last.


12 posted on 10/25/2011 6:05:12 AM PDT by Noumenon (The only 'NO' a liberal understands is the one that arrives at muzzle velocity.)
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To: Travis McGee

Ferfal sure paints a different picure than what the drive-bys are telling us. Thanks for posting!


13 posted on 10/25/2011 6:12:38 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: Noumenon

—There’s a real possibility for a ‘civilizational collapse.’ Won’t be the first. Nor will it be the last.—

I agree with all but the last statement. This really may be “Ezekiel 38,39” and a soon unfolding of events as described in Revelation.

We are not Argentina. If we fall, everybody does. Iceland was the canary in the cave. And since it was the first, it was able to still rely on the mere existence of the rest of western civilization to help them out of their mess (in progress). What’s coming is going to be quite global. And icky.


14 posted on 10/25/2011 6:14:30 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks for the ping, stay safe, brother.


15 posted on 10/25/2011 6:33:37 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: Travis McGee
You get the government you deserve. You're correct. The late Great USA had better pay close attention.
16 posted on 10/25/2011 6:36:09 AM PDT by ExSoldier ("Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil: It has no point.")
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To: Travis McGee
I visited Buenos Aires in 2007, intent on perhaps buying a home and retiring there. At the time the dollar was worth three Argentine pesos, and my money would have gone further there.

What I saw discouraged me, and I wouldn't dare, especially since Ms Kirchner has been reelected, buy anything there. I speak Spanish, as does my Austrian wife, so culturally, there was a lot to like. Pre-collapse, Argentina was, just like many latin American countries, rich and poor, no in-between. I imagine it still is.

There were some stupendous buys there as far as real-estate goes, and though the people were extremely friendly to Americans, I decided when Ms. Kirchner began to seize bank funds for various government projects, the writing was on the wall.

It's a shame. Their agriculture exports are booming, the only saving grace, and no one has lent them money, so a default will not be a large one.

The Argentinians have experienced nothing but authoritarian leadership throughout their history. Their culture has survived only because misery unites them. They have never experienced true capitalism, only crony, quasi-free markets and despotism. The fact that we Americans have experienced prosperity through free markets makes us different in important ways. For this reason I find it difficult to equate our situation with theirs, at any point in our history. Even now.

17 posted on 10/25/2011 6:45:30 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: Travis McGee
Take so much from the farmers through taxes with no regard to the future, so that today the land almost grows soy exclusively. In agricultural terms this is madness but they are doing it anyway. Get rid of everything, cattle, other agro, just plant soy. Soy kills the land and ten years from now we’re looking at a food crisis, but who cares?

Huh? Unless the seed and fertilizer companies have come up with new breeds of soy, I had always understood that soybeans revitalized the soil because it is a legume that can take nitrogen from the air. Essentially after planting corn for a couple of years you rotate to soybeans to give the land a year off.

18 posted on 10/25/2011 6:54:03 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Compare "Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson // "Pass this bill now!" - Barack Obama)
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To: Travis McGee
Soy kills the land and ten years from now we’re looking at a food crisis,

If he's talking about high-intensity chemical farming of soybeans, he's right, but it's the method, not the plant, that is the problem. No-till farming with soybeans replaces nitrogen and leaves the root masses and much of the green matter for decomposition. Farmers in Latin America had grown milpas of corn, beans, and squash (together) for over a thousand years with relatively little soil depletion.

19 posted on 10/25/2011 6:55:03 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (At least I have the decency to kill my food before I eat it.)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks for posting this. I believe many people still think that we would be immune from such as this happening here. In particular if we elect a ‘conservative’ president in 2012. However much is already in place. The wheels are in motion and have been for a long time conservative president or not. It will take great united energy to battle the forces at work. To preserve our culture, heritage and nation. Not the PC crap that we constantly see from the left and also from many on the right. I agree with the poster above that our social cohesion is weakening to the point of there being little if any at all left at least in the national sense. We certainly have a hard time uniting on much even on the so called right side of the aisle. Our whole societal structure is under attack and by and large under control of Marxist/liberal doctrine and I’m not sure we have the backbone anymore to fight it. We must unite on our forefathers, our common culture, heritage and blood. Without it we are just a shell.


20 posted on 10/25/2011 6:55:43 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: Travis McGee
it's amazing how so many folks who have obtained power like this started by winning with less than majorities in their first run

This woman's husband won with less than a quarter of the vote 3 elections ago before she succeeded him again this time.

These folks are Peronistas basically, left wing Nationalists

hard to figure except it ain't good

problem with Argentina is where we are headed ..though I think racially we will be more Brasil...Argentina is far less Africoid with almost no pure AmerIndians

but they both are largess cultures supported by a minority of earners...but here is the kicker...government largess there is not a cell phone and decent care and air condiditoning sitting on yer ass collecting entitlements like her

it's just barely living ...or squatting

21 posted on 10/25/2011 6:55:49 AM PDT by wardaddy (This GOP field sux)
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To: cuban leaf

Like JP2 said, sin eventually devours itself. Hitler messed up a lot of life, as did Stalin, but they eventually collapsed.

So, yea, it will be a fight if we lose, but a fight for us to make until it is won. Then a new opportunity will arise - for those to toss away or fight for anew.

Hope is in God, not man. Pray and fight. Pray and eat. Pray and fight some more. Pray and sleep. Repeat entire life. That’s our call.

When evil takes over, life gets easier (clearer) - there’s less guesswork in who/what to fight. Like the Polish and East Germans, even the indoctrinated see through all the crap without help, and renewed brainwashing efforts have the opposite effect.


22 posted on 10/25/2011 7:01:39 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: Travis McGee
Ms. K won with over half the country voting for her. This may appear to be a triumph of Democracy.

The goal is a civil society with the rule of law and real respect for individual civil and property rights.

Democracy is merely the mechanism that has on average been the most successful at creating and maintaining such a society.

IOW, don't confuse means with ends. It is not impossible to imagine an absolute monarchy that effectively meets these ends, or a true democracy that doesn't. In fact, we're well into experiencing this.

23 posted on 10/25/2011 7:03:53 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Travis McGee
USA has real hope in its Tea Party movement and politicians like Ron Paul.

Facepalm...

24 posted on 10/25/2011 7:06:46 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: wolfcreek; Travis McGee

Husband who preceded her was German Speaking Swiss descent ...and Croat.

He and Wifey are arguably the most beloved by Jewish groups there and worldwide as any Latin American leaders.

During the military repression of Communist Revolutionaries there in the 70s and early 80s, Jewish students were disproportionately involved in the Communist movements (Montoneros)themselves and hence were often liquidated by the military. The Kirchners...not Jewish to my knowledge...were allied with Montoneros and have worked to overturn the amnesty granted military from that time by civilian successors and they have returned stolen art taken to Argentina during and after WWII to Jewish groups in Europe.

The World Jewish Congress adores this bunch, so I doubt they are descended from Odessa File sorts


25 posted on 10/25/2011 7:08:41 AM PDT by wardaddy (This GOP field sux)
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To: KarlInOhio
Essentially after planting corn for a couple of years you rotate to soybeans to give the land a year off.

NOT SO!!! Yes, soybeans help replenish nitrogen (as do all legumes), they don't do so completely and they take other nutrients. But, to say "soy kills the land" is not true either.

The normal pratice is to continually rotate crops and, although it is done, it is not considered good practice (at least in the Midwest, where I run my family's farm) to plant the same crop in consecutive years.

26 posted on 10/25/2011 7:10:38 AM PDT by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: Travis McGee

btw...I highly recommend Suicide of a Superpower if you don’t already have it


27 posted on 10/25/2011 7:15:52 AM PDT by wardaddy (This GOP field sux)
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To: Travis McGee

btw...I highly recommend Suicide of a Superpower if you don’t already have it


28 posted on 10/25/2011 7:16:00 AM PDT by wardaddy (This GOP field sux)
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To: Travis McGee
Could it happen here??

We have to change our history, change our culture, change the way we think. - Michelle Obama

Nah, of course not, what wuld make you think so?? /sarcasm

29 posted on 10/25/2011 7:22:04 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Noumenon

“There’s a real possibility for a ‘civilizational collapse.’ Won’t be the first. Nor will it be the last.”

I suspect that only one in four or so even here - with a very well informed base - really understand what you are talking about: Sea Peoples; Vandals; Chichimecas; the An Lushan Rebellion; the Thirty Years War. Catastrophic technological and population decline.


30 posted on 10/25/2011 7:28:58 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: KarlInOhio

A quick glance on the net.. Don’t Cry for Weeds, Argentina
Genetically Modified Soy Stirs Up Trouble in Argentina
Argentina’s adoption of genetically modified soy was touted as a big GM success story, propping up struggling farmers and the country’s sinking economy, but seven years later it is causing an environmental disaster, say researchers. The crop, sold by GM giant Monsanto, raised yields so quickly that it spread like a virus and now covers half the arable land in Argentina. Big farmers, eager to plant more, have driven some 150,000 small farmers off their land. The soy was bred to be resistant to Roundup, Monsanto’s patented herbicide. Problem is, the soy is so tenacious that it pops up where it doesn’t belong, prompting farmers to dump other, more powerful herbicides on it. This heavy herbicide use can screw up soil and devastate neighboring farms. Also worrying is the development of herbicide-resistant weeds. Monsanto denies that this cocktail of vicious cycles is the fault of the crop itself, instead placing the blame on monoculture — the planting of one crop to the exclusion of all others — something they were shocked, shocked to find Argentinean farmers engaging in.

the source: The Guardian, Paul Brown, 16 Apr 2004
***

eorge Soros to Invest $300 Million to Produce Biofuel in Argentina
Argentinean Federal Planning minister, Julio de Vido, revealed yesterday in New York the interest of the group lead by Hungarian financier and philanthropist George Soros in developing bio-fuel in Santa Fe province, Argentina. The investment would be “between 250 and 300 million dollars”, he informed after meeting with Soros’ son -Jonathan Soros-, and it would be oriented to produce bio-fuel from corn and sugar cane. The plant would be settled in Santa Fe province, one of the closest to Buenos Aires and one of the main centers for farming activities in the country. More specifically, it would be set at Venado Tuerto city. The project would employ “1,300 people directly and among 8 and 10 thousand people indirectly”, the minister considered, and anticipated a production of 200 million liters of bio-fuel. The Soros group was already involved in real estate investments in the country and then got to manage over 170 thousand hectares of country land in several Argentinean provinces. It has now strong investments in cattle, soy, corn, wheat, sunflower, and milk production. Though their bio-fuel interest has a background with the buying of an ethanol plant in Minas Gerais -Brazil-, they surely saw an opportunity in Argentina after the recent fuzz about the bio-fuel law declared by the government -approved in 2004 and re-approved in April with a different text-. This law...

... sets tax deduction incentives for the production of bio-fuel, and makes mandatory for all liquid fuels from petrol to contain 5% of ethanol or bio-fuel. Though it might seem a positive initiative, the duplicate approval left a sour feel to it.
On the other hand, it’s no surprise the project takes place in Santa Fe province, since it’s home to several bio-energy initiatives. Major oil companies have projects for soy conversion into bio-fuel, and petrol companies such as Repsol have plans for millionaire investments.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/09/george_soros_to_1.php


31 posted on 10/25/2011 7:31:11 AM PDT by anglian
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To: GeronL

“We have to change our history, change our culture, change the way we think. - Michelle Obama”

In a way she is correct, she is just looking through the wrong end of the spyglass. We need to uproot and utterly destroy every vestige of leftist cultural oppression and policy, beginning no later than Woodrow Wilson and the other ‘progressives’. Authentic federalism needs to be restored. The size, scope and authority of the Washington government must be curtailed with particular focus on administrative agencies and the federal judiciary. The welfare state, the police state and the education-indoctrination racket need to be cut off at the roots and those systems killed. Those are the historical and cultural changes that must and shall inevitably come. The only question is whether Icarus will land soft or hard.


32 posted on 10/25/2011 7:40:12 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: Travis McGee

bttt


33 posted on 10/25/2011 7:59:18 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Travis McGee

bookmark, thanks for posting.


34 posted on 10/25/2011 8:01:28 AM PDT by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: KarlInOhio

As I understand it (and I am just a home gardener) legumes only release that nitrogen as the plant roots decompose. If you continually plant legumes and never let them decompose in an off-season, I’d guess they don’t add any nitrogen back.

And of course legumes use other nutrients, so if you mono-crop intensively with soy (or corn or wheat for that matter), you are going to cause soil degradation problems.

—From my basic understanding of ag and somewhat more knowledge of soil science. But IANAF or SS


35 posted on 10/25/2011 8:20:59 AM PDT by Betis70 (Bruins!)
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To: Psalm 144
Yes, exactly. It's humanity's cautionary tale that we ignore at our peril. Carroll Quigley, in his The Evolution of Civilizations: An Introduction to Historical Analysis has another take on this subject that I’ve found fascinating – and possibly more correct. He postulated that Western civilizations proceed through the following stages:

1. Mixture - different societies come into contact and produce a society with an outlook different from any of the combined parts.

2. Gestation - the period of time between the mixing of the different societies and the expansion of the civilization.

3. Expansion - the surplus generated by the society is invested in activities that benefit the civilization. This can include an increase in knowledge, increase in physical area, technological advancements that increase efficiency, etc. Civilizations make use of different instruments of expansion. Quigley calls a social organization or unit an instrument if it meets social needs.

4. Age of Conflict - The rate of increase resulting from the use of one or more social instruments slows down which results in "interesting times". The instrument can be reformed or a new instrument consistent with the civilization's outlook can circumvent the old instrument. If reform is achieved, a new age of expansion begins. If the vested interests of the previous instrument of expansion increasingly consume resources while serving no social needs, Quigley says that the instrument has then become an institution. Expansion can continue, but it is at the expense of neighbors, which leads to imperialist wars. When the vested interests have crushed all internal opposition, the next stage appears.

5. Universal Empire - typically a state or political unit on the periphery of the civilization gains power over the whole civilization. The illusion of a golden age appears. The social organization remains stagnant.

6. Decay - lack of belief in the civilization's outlook or inability to meet needs of the people leads to people opting out of the system. An age of cynicism, low cunning and despair.

7. Invasion - external forces disrupt the civilization's social organization and it is unable or unwilling to defend itself. That spells the end of the civilization.

Quigley stated that modern Western civilization as embodied by America has succeeded in arriving at the brink of the Age of Conflict stage no fewer than four times, but has always managed to reinvigorate itself by launching into a new Age of Expansion. Recall that expansion in Quigley's terms doesn't necessarily apply to the acquisition of new territory. If he’s correct, we’re now out of options, and that we’ve progressed rapidly through to stage 6. As you may know, I have my own ideas about what’s going on with respect to the role that the will to power has played in modern times.

An excellent reference appears here: The Catastrophe” What the End of Bronze-Age Civilization Means for Modern Times

36 posted on 10/25/2011 8:51:45 AM PDT by Noumenon (The only 'NO' a liberal understands is the one that arrives at muzzle velocity.)
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To: Travis McGee
Bookmark.
37 posted on 10/25/2011 9:09:09 AM PDT by ExSoldier ("Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil: It has no point.")
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To: Noumenon

A very interesting and informative post. Thanks for that. I’ve reviewed it for now, but I will be coming back to really chew this one over. It deserves real thought.

>>>> BOOKMARK! <<<<


38 posted on 10/25/2011 9:09:20 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: Travis McGee
I'd been puzzling over the occasional news out of Argentina, especially in light of extensive study of FerFal's earlier writings. Even the left wing conspiracy histories told quite a different story than the Party Line parroted by our American AP News Readers on Radio and TV.

When Lady K went to the G20 summit there was extensive coverage here about the gross riches spent on shoes, for example, that would have made Isabella Marcos blush.

To hear she was re-elected was not a surprise, but it has to be as disappointing to FF as news of Caligula's re-election next year would be to myself here in the U.S.

I appreciate the post and also recommend everyone to read FF's diaries.

It's true. The majority who happen to vote in one contest on one particular day does not make something right or wrong. The boundaries are clear. You can read about them in the U.S. Constitution. We're on the precipice of civil strife, beginning not with drumming unions taking over city parks and supported by corrupt and stupid urban politicians, rather perhaps with a protracted guerrilla campaign, one without statements and pronouncements. It might be triggered by a bad choice by a single judge in a particular Supreme Court 5-4 decision, after which there will be no more innocents. There are no non-combatants in real war, as opposed to play house war. Anyone who supports usurpation of the Rule of Law will become fair game when lawlessness officially becomes precedent defended by an equally lawless and presumptuous self-styled monopoly of force.

39 posted on 10/25/2011 9:12:22 AM PDT by Prospero
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To: Travis McGee
Hugo Chavez was voted at some time into office. So was Hitler.

*UGGGGH* How many times do I have to point out that Hitler was NOT elected?!?!? He was appointed, then engineered a coup behind the scenes.

40 posted on 10/25/2011 9:12:27 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Prospero

“Anyone who supports usurpation of the Rule of Law will become fair game when lawlessness officially becomes precedent defended by an equally lawless and presumptuous self-styled monopoly of force.”

Immediate word associations from this:

Moscow, Old Bolsheviks, Show Trials, Night of the Long Knives, Sturm Abteilung . . . and so on.


41 posted on 10/25/2011 10:03:19 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: Noumenon

I agree, and I think the best one can realistically hope for is to be living in a region that is not as badly shattered as many will be, particularly the urban welfare zones.


42 posted on 10/25/2011 10:06:37 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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43 posted on 10/25/2011 10:06:37 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: wardaddy

Suicide of a Superpower is on my next-to-read list. I’ve enjoyed reading and listening to PJB over the years.


44 posted on 10/25/2011 10:16:28 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Psalm 144; Noumenon
“There’s a real possibility for a ‘civilizational collapse.’ Won’t be the first. Nor will it be the last.”

I suspect that only one in four or so even here - with a very well informed base - really understand what you are talking about: Sea Peoples; Vandals; Chichimecas; the An Lushan Rebellion; the Thirty Years War. Catastrophic technological and population decline.

I quite agree.


45 posted on 10/25/2011 10:21:39 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Own it, read it. He has a lot of wisdom.


46 posted on 10/25/2011 10:26:30 AM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: Psalm 144; Noumenon
“There’s a real possibility for a ‘civilizational collapse.’ Won’t be the first. Nor will it be the last.”

I suspect that only one in four or so even here - with a very well informed base - really understand what you are talking about: Sea Peoples; Vandals; Chichimecas; the An Lushan Rebellion; the Thirty Years War. Catastrophic technological and population decline.

I quite agree.


47 posted on 10/25/2011 10:28:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Prospero

Yes, and my God help us.


48 posted on 10/25/2011 10:32:28 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

And when the SHTF in Argieland, invade the Falklands.


49 posted on 10/25/2011 10:39:16 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Travis McGee

Have you seen this? I just saw it today, reading the third page of the thread. Selco from Bosnia telling of his expereinces during a year long seige of some city in Bosnia near the Croat border.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=189395


50 posted on 10/25/2011 12:05:00 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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