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To: shove_it

I disagree with several things in the above article. First of all, if it wasn’t for Scholasticism, there never would have been educated people and a Protestant Reformation. That was entirely caused by the Catholic educational system—which became more and more accessible even to very poor families, not just the wealthy. That was a Catholic idea—where they gave poor children excellent educations, although just a select few. But the idea grew and expanded as all good ideas usually do if you have a rational religion, like the Catholic one.

That was the unique thing about Catholicism—everything was debated and agreed upon with much study and logic—like the golden age of Greece where you had the philosophy of Plato, Socrates and Aristotle—the Father of Logic. That logic was embraced by St. Augustine (Plato) and Aristotle was baptized by St. Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century! That logic and wisdom is a bedrock of Catholic Theology which carried into Protestant Christianity. That tradition of inquiry and debate of ideas led to Copernicus and Newton and all the great inventions....all educated by Catholic Theologians as were atheists like Voltaire and Luther. Luther loved Catholic Theology, he hated the corruption around him which was the human element, not the theology.

So, was there corruption in the Church. Yes, and it needed to be addressed and was....but there is always corruption, where there are human beings. Protestant churches are rife with it today—they have “gay” clergy and promote a “social gospel”. For the most part, Catholic Theology was always based on scripture—and intense debate....nothing, including child baptism was not “reasoned” (and hearing their arguments, along with scripture backing are sound). The faith issues that are beyond reason are always based on the most rational explanation (at least I found that to be true)—except for some much later doctrine.

I will say that anyone who questions their “pagan” practices, have not studied Catholic Theology in depth. That the popes were corrupted is never denied....even now, they know they are not perfect in all things. That they allow practices unique in nations, is not necessary paganism, like Christmas trees....to create Catholic traditions had to come from somewhere and the fun and beauty and symbolism of trees can be directed in a positive way—toward Christianity. Every idea is based on a previous one and paganism existed first so it is hard to say-—this didn’t derive from “paganism”.....when all things really did emerge from the pagan world—even Judaism.

Ideas take time to catch on and mature. Just as it took hundreds of years for the wise Greeks to finally outlaw Greek citizens from ever being a slave, although they still accepted slavery from other nations. It was a step in the right direction and it was more “progressive” than other nations who all have had slavery.

The one practice which is trying to rear its ugly head again is pederasty and homosexuality where woman are second class citizens. That was common in all ancient worlds and was condemned by the Jews and became suppressed in all countries affected by Western Civilization. Arabs still practice rampant homosexuality and pederasty (the left tries to make people think they “hate” homosexuals to push their ugly agenda, but in truth, Arabs get their recreational sexual pleasures from boys.) This practice is still prominent in some Asian countries and Africa. It is only Judeo/Christianity that has curbed all sexual sins, like polygamy, homosexuality and pederasty and pedophilia.

Now we are seeing the resurgence of this worldview of paganism with the removal of DADT, and the indoctrination of our troops who go to Afghanistan to “look the other way” as the men use hordes of boys and other men as sex toys. This is the ugly secret of most leftists.....the leaders are sodomites, like their hero, John Maynard Keynes who was a homosexual who passed little boys around to his homosexual friends.

You see it with Ginsberg and the APA—this sexualization of children and trying to remove all sexual restraint, even for children. You see vaccinations for 9 year old boys and girls being pushed to prevent sexual diseases which is to prepare them for the world that zero and his homosexual school czar is trying to create....The Brave New World, where Christian Ethics are no longer heeded and children can be used like in the last days of Rome where children performed sex acts on stages and for orgies.

Sex Ed in the public schools is designed to destroy Christian morality—to make children into sexual promiscuous animals....to remove the stigma from homosexual contacts, etc. They want to normalize all sexual acts so they can create their utopia of godlessness.


4 posted on 11/02/2011 11:17:46 AM PDT by savagesusie
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To: savagesusie

While I mostly agree with your post, you neglected to confront the false claim that Christianity was spread in Europe by the sword. That is a gross distortion.

From the earliest times there were missionaries and monks active in pagan Europe. Their success - e.g. the conversion of Clovis in 496 - was responsible for the spread of Christianity. Some try to cite Charlemagne’s “conversion” of the Saxons as an example of coerced conversion, but that was actually an attempt by Charlemagne (after several punitive military campaigns) to use non-military means to get the superstitious Saxons to cease their rapine and murder. Charlemagne believed he could stop killing Saxons (who were savage, murdering brigands)if he could get them to believe that they would be personally punished by the powerful god of the Franks if they resumed their crimes. Overall, Charlemagne succeeded, and eventually the Saxons genuinely accepted Christianity and became civilized.


6 posted on 11/02/2011 12:04:14 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: savagesusie

While I mostly agree with your post, you neglected to confront the false claim that Christianity was spread in Europe by the sword. That is a gross distortion.

From the earliest times there were missionaries and monks active in pagan Europe. Their success - e.g. the conversion of Clovis in 496 - was responsible for the spread of Christianity. Some try to cite Charlemagne’s “conversion” of the Saxons as an example of coerced conversion, but that was actually an attempt by Charlemagne (after several punitive military campaigns) to use non-military means to get the superstitious Saxons to cease their rapine and murder. Charlemagne believed he could stop killing Saxons (who were savage, murdering brigands)if he could get them to believe that they would be personally punished by the powerful god of the Franks if they resumed their crimes. Overall, Charlemagne succeeded, and eventually the Saxons genuinely accepted Christianity and became civilized.


7 posted on 11/02/2011 12:05:17 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: savagesusie

“...atheists like Voltaire and Luther...”

Do I understand you to label Martin Luther, the father of the Reformation, an atheist?


9 posted on 11/02/2011 12:51:59 PM PDT by shove_it (old Old Guardsman)
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