Posted on 12/02/2011 7:32:24 AM PST by MichCapCon
Michigan’s largest government employee union, the MEA teachers union, is expressing shock — shock! — that a Mackinac Center analyst asserted in an email, “Our goal is (to) outlaw government collective bargaining in Michigan, which in practical terms means no more MEA.”
It’s a good thing the union bosses apparently didn’t read an article published in CapCon by the same analyst, me, 10 days after that email was sent, “Government Collective Bargaining Inherently Corrupting, Should Be Outlawed.”
If that assertion isn’t clear enough, let's try this: Collective bargaining for government employees is illegitimate and hurts people.
Mostly, it hurts the middle-class that government unions often pretend to favor, forcing Michigan families to pay higher taxes to receive fewer government services. But that’s not even the worst consequence: In education, it hurts children, because for years politically powerful school employee unions have halted desperately needed reforms.
For example, until just this summer, government sector collective bargaining made it virtually impossible for Michigan schools to fire ineffective teachers, resulting in perversions like “rubber rooms” and “the dance of the lemons” (where principals try to shuffle their ineffective teachers to a different school).
Nevertheless, for those not completely convinced by the logic and evidence provided by a free-market think tank, here’s another voice making the same assertion:
“The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."
That was Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the president who founded today’s welfare state, and also instituted the pro-union private-sector labor law regime under which this country still operates.
FDR understood what I explained in the article that the union bosses apparently missed: There are two arenas for collective bargaining, one legitimate and the other not. The legitimate form is private sector unionism, where representatives of employees and the managers of a business negotiate pay and benefits.
Ideally this would be completely voluntary, with no laws tilting the playing field to one side or the other (current law greatly favors unions), but that’s a discussion for another day. Today’s topic is public-sector unionism.
Unlike the private sector, government employee unions don’t collectively bargain against self-interested CEOs and investors, but against their fellow citizens. Every dollar gained by the union is a dollar lost to taxpayers and those who depend on government services, because it makes those services more costly than they should be.
How much more? The Mackinac Center has calculated that Michigan taxpayers shell out $5.7 billion every year to provide extra fringe benefits to government and school employees above and beyond what they would get under private-sector averages.
Finally, the sentence asserting that a government collective bargaining ban “means no more MEA” was incomplete. Of course the MEA would be perfectly free to carry on as a purely voluntary club, like the Kiwanis or Rotary Club, providing services to individuals who choose to join it. It just wouldn’t have the power granted to it by the Michigan Legislature to compel every school employee to pay union dues or fees, and to force school districts to bargain with it.
Why blame collective bargaining?
Who do these Unions bargain with?
They bargain with the officials elected by the public to run their cities.
If you don’t like what these officials agree to in collective bargaining you should elect other officials.
Just because Unions go to collective bargaining it doesn’t mean the city has to give in.
Once this devolves into a feedback loop, it is nearly impossible to reverse. The unions contribute heavily to democrats who get elected and give away the store to unions in bargaining sessions. The newly enriched unions then up the political contributions in both dollars and bodies and ensure the democrat reelection. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
They bargain with the officials elected by the public to run their cities.
No. They are bargaining with the Public Officials who are supposed to represent the public. How does collective bargaining benefit the public exactly?
Unlike the private sector, government employee unions don’t collectively bargain against self-interested CEOs and investors, but against their fellow citizens. Every dollar gained by the union is a dollar lost to taxpayers and those who depend on government services, because it makes those services more costly than they should be.
Reason enough IMHO.
The people have no control over elected officials who can essentially give away the store. They really should have no right to bargain away tax dollars on benefits, unrelated to government business.
As in "In the beginning of November the state government began rigidly enforcing both a 48-month lifetime limit for receiving cash welfare benefits in the state and a 60-month federal limit, providing no waivers for families who were struggling to find work. The new law passed by the Republican-dominated legislature and Republican governor is the most draconian anti-welfare bill in the Midwest and possibly in the country."
Sounds like a plan to me.
Electing your employer from the MEA-PAC fund. (pdf file)
http://www.mea.org/bfcl/pdf/BFCL_Electing_your_Employer.pdf
Basically its a brochure on how educational unions can manipulate local elections in their favor.
Yeah, we’re working on it.
Who do you think buys police cars and fire trucks and garbage trucks, who decides when to buy a property for the city, and decides how many police officers they hire.
“They really should have no right to bargain away tax dollars on benefits, unrelated to government business.”
Public Employees are Government business.
Do you think that every pay raise due to a Public Employee should go on a ballot referendum?
These people you and I elect bargain every day, that is what they are elected for.If you don’t like them giving pay raises or benefits to public employees, vote them out.
That Firefighter or Police Officer living next to you is part of the public. He/she is not an alien from outer space, if he/she gets a raise they have to help pay that too.
How do you suggest Public Employees get pay raises or benefits or salary’s to keep up with the inflation rates or private industry without collective bargaining.
Do you think they should wait for citizens to go down to their mayor and tell him the police and fire need a raise?
There has to be some way for Public employees to ask for what they feel they are due.
There is nothing wrong with collective bargaining, The problem is with politicians who give away the store. They do not have to agree with the bargaining agent.
Can you think of another fair way to deal with Public Employees other than collective bargaining> If you do lets hear it.
I agree what you describe is the problem.
IMO we should stop all Unions from giving to politicians campaign funds.
Every Union has a PAC fund to give to politicians.
We are not stupid enough to believe that politicians take this money and do not give support to Unions.
Unions PACs should be outlawed.This is how SEIU became so powerful
Unions are supposed to help their members not buy politicians.
It is up to the public to see that a law is passed to stop[ this. Just as it is up to us to see that a law is passd to stop Congress from getting insider trading and getting rich
What chance do you see that politicians will pass either of these proposals? I would say slim and none.
I still say the problem is not with Unions and collective bargaining, it is with politicians who’s vote is for sale.
If you belonged to a Union and your pay raise was up for sale by buying a politician, wouldn’t you buy him/her?
The Presidency of the United States was bought by SEIU, ACORN and other PACs. PACs and Bundlers should be outlawed.
In cities and in the Federal Government. se my earlier posts.
“How does collective bargaining benefit the public exactly? “
This is the real question. It should be asked often and laud.
That Firefighter or Police Officer living next to you is part of the public. He/she is not an alien from outer space, if he/she gets a raise they have to help pay that too.
How do you suggest Public Employees get pay raises or benefits or salary’s to keep up with the inflation rates or private industry without collective bargaining.
Do you think they should wait for citizens to go down to their mayor and tell him the police and fire need a raise?
There has to be some way for Public employees to ask for what they feel they are due.
There is nothing wrong with collective bargaining, The problem is with politicians who give away the store. They do not have to agree with the bargaining agent.
Can you think of another fair way to deal with Public Employees other than collective bargaining> If you do lets hear it.
1)O.K. firefighters and police are employed by the public and that makes them different than other employees. They are answerable to their neighbors and not the union.
2)On how I suggest public employees get raises and benefits. How about like the rest of us. They are no better or worse than anyone else. When companies loose money employees loose benefits sometimes even jobs. When our country looses money union benefits / cost of living increases should be cut, not raised. The unions are always whining about fairness. Does this sound fair to you?
3)”There has to be some way for Public employees to ask for what they feel they are due.” Seriously? No One in this country is “due” anything from their employer. They supply a service and they get paid for that service. period. If you do a good job you get a raise, if you don’t, you lose your job. If the education system employed this method our education system would improve drastically. You must have been in a union your whole life if you didn’t think of this yourself.
4)So it was politicians who gave away the store? Really? So politicians are bestowing these insane benefits to unions without being asked? Do you really believe that?
5)Yes. I can think of one fair way to deal with public employees other than collective bargaining...here goes...how about LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY DOES IT!
You are dreaming. Who do you think gave away the store.
Collective bargaining is with City Councils and Mayors. AKA Politicions.Of course it was tham who gave away the store.
I do not agree that all benefits are insane, but certainl;y it was politicians who gave these benefits.
Do you honestly believe that if you do a good job in Public service and never ask for a cost of living raise that you will get one?/ You are dreaming.
When you need a raise don’t you ask for one? That is what collective bargaining is. Doesn’t mean you have to get it.
I have been in a Union for 48 years, I have also worked part time, and I have asked for raises from the boss. Again thats what Collective bargaining is, asking for a raise.
As for number 5-— Public employees are say 1400 people,Sometimes as many as 14,000 people. Are you suggestions that 1400 or 14,000 people individually go to Cuty Hall, make an appointment with the City Council to ask for a raise?
Sure it’s easy you drive a truck or work a sewing machins with 10 other people and you think you deserve a raise because you are “due” a raise because of your efforts, and the raise in the cost of living you go to the boss and ask for one. It is different when 1400 people are needing a cost of living raise and they have to deal with the city council or the Mayor or the Congress.
Most of the time Private business will not cut pay, thay cut employees. Sometimes the public employee’s are cut too.Seldom do people accept a pay cut, but if the cost of living went down , I would have no problem with it.
Unfortunately cost of living is still rising while jobs are getting harder to find.
Sometimes these politicians appoint a bargaining agent to cut the deal with Unions, but that does not mean that the politician is not responsible for the agreement.They hired the agent.They control the agent.
John Barnes doesn’t sound too bright to me.
Let me tell you a little story.....My stepfather owned a business. In the 80’s, a lot of non-union competition sprung up and he was out bid on every contract he had. He could not afford the union fees and asked for the union to suspend just their dues (The company matched the employee contributions). The workers of this other company were hired at minimum with no benefits. My stepfather, Rather than have 300+ employees lose their jobs, appealed to the union to help him keep his workers employed. They refused. They didn’t just refuse, they dragged him to court. He lost his company. 300+ workers lost their jobs too. THAT is how the unions work on behalf of their members.
Who do you think pulls the strings of these politicians? Why do you think the politicians in Wisconsin fled the state rather than vote against the union. Do you really believe it was their idea? Look, you will believe whatever you want to believe. I can’t change 48 years of brainwashing. I can tell you, from experience, that unions care about unions. If they cared about the employees of a company, it would also care about the company itself. It doesn’t. I saw my father beg, literally beg on behalf of his employees to the union. They didn’t even blink. Union members are pawns in all of this. My stepfather was a union man 100%, as was his father before him. Right up until he lost his business. You see, when the unions negotiate, they are looking out for themselves, not you. Power is their game. Period. Sure they get stuff for you guys. You are their support structure. But have any of you bothered to see what they get for themselves as a result of negotiating “on your behalf”. Probably not.
“How does collective bargaining benefit the public exactly? “
Answer: It doesn’t. It benefits the union.
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