Geordi:(two minutes of techno-babble) we're ready captain: 
Picard: Good work, warp 5, Engage:
I think you spent too much time in the hospital watching Star Trek TNG between ect treatments.
Posted on 12/17/2011 9:08:40 PM PST by Kevmo
Scientists have been able to accurately calculate rates of reaction and energy output for muon catalyzed cold fusion for 50 years. It looks like that's not the case for your pathological science.
Let's see. Fifty years....that would mean that the scientific basis to make such calculations originated around 1960. The muon was discovered in 1936. So to develop the capacity took about forty years. And research into the properties of the muon wasn't artificially impeded by an active campaign to deny funding or academic positions to any who dared to do such research.
The Pons/Fleischmann experiment was in 1988. So CF should be due to reach that level of theoretical prediction capability around 2025. Given the current rapid strides being made in understanding the mechanisms of LANR in spite of the artificial barriers currently in place on such research, I think LANR will beat out "muon catalyzed CF" by quite a few years in reaching that capability.
Oh, and here's a trivia tidbit for you......what was the ONLY proven case of fraud in cold fusion research??? (Hint...it's NOT Rossi).
Andrei Sakharov and F.C. Frank [3] predicted the phenomenon of muon-catalyzed fusion on theoretical grounds before 1950. Yakov Borisovich Zel'dovich[4] also wrote about the phenomenon of muon-catalyzed fusion in 1954. Luis W. Alvarez et al.,[5] when analyzing the outcome of some experiments with muons incident on a hydrogen bubble chamber at Berkeley in 1956, observed muon-catalysis of exothermic p-d, proton and deuteron, nuclear fusion, which results in a helion, a gamma ray, and a release of about 5.5 MeV of energy. The Alvarez experimental results, in particular, spurred John David Jackson to publish one of the first comprehensive theoretical studies of muon-catalyzed fusion in his ground-breaking 1957 paper.[6] This paper contained the first serious speculations on useful energy release from muon-catalyzed fusion. Jackson concluded that it would be impractical as an energy source, unless the "alpha-sticking problem" (see below) could be solved, leading potentially to an energetically cheaper and more efficient way of utilizing the catalyzing muons.[6] This assessment has, so far, stood the test of time.So it only took a year from the first observation of muon catalyzed cold fusion in 1956 to accurately explaining it theoretically. The quackery you promote is way behind that timetable.
Ah, so it's NOT "all about Rossi", is it. In your mind, ALL cold fusion if fraudulent. Glad you finally officially outed yourself.
Oh, and you didn't answer the question I asked about what was the ONLY proven instance of fakery in CF research.
Dang it all. I just got back from a biz trip to Europe. I love how my company thinks it’s doing me a favor, a couple of days before Christmas.
If I had had time to make it down to Bologna, I would have written Rossi requesting a meeting. He seems to have no problem talking to folks and my bona fides should at least have gotten me in the door.
I would liked to meet him to sus him out.
Now, before people say he’s a con man and of course I would have been impressed by him that is not true.
We have four options here:
1) The E-Cat is real.
2) Rossi believes the E-cat is real.
3) Rossi believes in the E-cat but he feels with more money spent, he can make it work.
4) He’s a scammer and knows it does not work and is merely scamming for cash.
Nevertheless, meeting someone when you have the experience I have in these situations, I feel I could either say with confidence (keeping in mind that this is only my opinion based on a lot of experience) whether he is an out and out con-man. Eliminating that leads to end of discussion or if not, then on to figuring out whether 1,2,3 is the case. I would prefer #1 to be the case, #2 would mean he is either not measuring the output correctly or something else but he believes it works so even with this option, it eliminates him from being a con man although it would be nice to have independent tests done to eliminate this option. #3 is where I believe Randall Mills is with Black Light Power; he knows something is there but can’t scale it up to be useful and he has spent millions and as far as his operations seem, they’re on the up and up.
I would have loved to meet Rossi; I’ve been to Italy many times and know how to deal with them besides being married to one...
On one of my free days I could have possibly made it down there but I didn’t know what day that would have been and it is rude to pound on someone’s door and ask to speak with Rossi and possibly get a tour.
I’ve got to go, I think, in March so I might build in some time and make an effort to meet him. If nothing else, it would be interesting.
It's fraudulent to equate it to other energy production methods and I've explained why.
This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
1) The E-Cat is real. 2) Rossi believes the E-cat is real. 3) Rossi believes in the E-cat but he feels with more money spent, he can make it work. 4) He’s a scammer and knows it does not work and is merely scamming for cash.
Or he could be like George Costanza: It's not a lie if you believe it's true.
If there were anything to it, it would have been observed before now.
***The Pons-Fleischmann excess heat effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.
Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions, self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications
http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)
Scientific American
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-scientists-sin
1. Jed Rothwell
11:52 AM 6/20/10
Shermer says that Goodstein concluded that cold fusion was most likely a case of scientists who “convince themselves that they are in the possession of knowledge that does not in fact exist.”
Cold fusion has been replicated in over 180 major laboratories, by roughly 1,500 professional scientists. These replications have been published in roughly 800 papers in mainstream, peer reviewed journals such as J. Electroanal. Chem. and Japanese J. of Applied Physcis. J. He of the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences estimates that the effect has been observed in roughly 14,000 experimental runs (Front. Phys. China (2007) 1: 96 102).
Many of the results were at low signal to noise ratio, but others were high, such as heat from 10 to 100 W, and tritium at 50 times background (Los Alamos, Texas A&M) up to several million times (BARC).
Most of the researchers who have reported positive results are senior, distinguished experts, such as the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, government of India, and the experts at Los Alamos in charge of the Tritium Systems Test Assembly and the Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor at Princton. Only senior researchers can get funding because of academic politics.
When a result has been widely replicated at high signal to noise ratios and reported in the literature, that result is real, by definition. There is no other standard of reality in science. If it were possible for hundreds of scientists in hundreds of laboratories to be wrong, the experimental method would not work, and no result would be meaningful, and science itself would not work. If Shermer and Goodstein would substitute some other standard of truth, and ignore replication and peer-review, they are engaged in some form of faith-based religion or a popularity contest, not science.
So... you guys can call yourselves seagulls but if I do it the posts get removed by the admin moderator.
There is no indication that Rossi's degree isn't perfectly legitimate for the time and place granted. Other than, of course, your imagination.
Your problem is that you want so badly to believe that Rossi is genuine that you're willing to overlook just about anything that contradicts that belief.
So what if the Italians changed their laws specifying requirements for a degree? It's highly unlikely that such changes were very substantial as far as actual work required for a given degree. I especially doubt that the requirements for PhDs were made MORE strict than when Rossi supposedly attended university.
It also doesn't help your case to quote an Italian as saying that until 1986, the highest degree offered was a Master's. That is, in effect, saying that it was impossible for Rossi to even get a doctorate.
Last, I will reiterate that the degree Rossi claims to have earned from the U of Milan, the "Dottore Magistrale in Filosofia", is a Master's degree in Philosophy. It not only is not a doctorate, it isn't even a science degree. I don't know about you, but I've never dealt with philosophers in the lab. It appears to me that the specific degree name was selected so as to convey the impression that Rossi has a level of education that he does not; the Italian words for "Master's degree in Philosophy" sure do look like the English words "Doctor of Philosophy". Too bad (for Rossi) that we have Google and can check these things out.
Just out of curiosity, I looked at that letter again. Right above the signature line, it says "IL CAPO UFFICIO SEGRETERIE FACOLTA UMANISTICHE", which translates into English as "HEAD OF THE HUMANITIES FACULTY OFFICES". That leads to another oddity to ponder. Why would the Humanities department verify a degree awarded by the Physics department? (Answer: because the degree being verified is, in fact a Master's degree in Philosophy, not a Doctorate in any science.)
You might want to read about that before getting too terribly excited one way or the other.
Wiki says that this often confuses foreigners.
He was reputed to be worth 1% of the total wealth of Denmark. His cousins in Sweden were in control of the affairs of state during most of his life (he lived in Scania then under Swedish authority although he was a Danish nobleman).
He had a GOLD NOSE.
Why I'm asking is simple ~ I'm trying to tie him into some gold mining ventures that appear to have been lost to history, and whether or not he figured out that non glacial gold can be found where stones from space strike is very important.
BTW, I am certainly not going to tell you the nest steps, but you're a smart guy and should be able to reference some information to clue me in on this.
You might want to read about that before getting too terribly excited one way or the other.
Do you mean this Wiki article? It corroborates everything I said.
"Dottore" means "doctor", "master", or "graduate". In the context of education, the third definition is probably the pertinent one. The Ph.D. is a "Dottorati".
Although I found plenty of references to the education reform (the purpose of which was to standardize education across Europe), I have found nothing that says only one degree was offered previous to the reform.
BTW, I am certainly not going to tell you the nest steps, but you're a smart guy and should be able to reference some information to clue me in on this.
Sorry. I'm too busy trying to figure out why when you drop buttered toast it always lands on the floor buttered side down.
Geordi:(two minutes of techno-babble) we're ready captain:
Picard: Good work, warp 5, Engage:
I think you spent too much time in the hospital watching Star Trek TNG between ect treatments.
So, again, we have evidence that Rossi does not have a doctorate, since at the time he (allegedly) attended university, it was not even possible to earn a doctorate in Italy (according to that article). (I should point out here that Rossi isn't claiming to have a Laurea--the degree he claims to have is a Dottore Magistrale, which is a Master's.) That still leaves open the question of how someone getting a degree in philosophy has any of the theoretical or practical knowledge necessary to do physics research. I can confidently say that I have never seen a philosopher in a laboratory (although I've seen that many Doctors of Philosophy, including myself, work in labs).
It's like this ~ many people imagine they have a legitimate college degree because they have studied hard sciences, or accounting.
They don't ~ unless you have an A.B., where you must almost universally pass a foreign language requirement.
In addition, following the classical divisions of education you almost immediately notice that SOME have no doctorate ~ never did ~ never will.
When I was in school you had to have 18 hours of a foreign language to earn an AB (or BA) ~ my degree is written in latin BTW. Then, to get a Masters in the College of Arts and Sciences you had to pass a reading course in a third language.
A doctorate required passing a reading course in a fourth language.
I was on that track for a while, and built on high school latin to take college Spanish and graduate level French, and went ahead and worked on Italian and Rumanian to see if I could get ahead of the program.
Rossi ~ or almost any person in Italy selected to go to university, would have graduated with knowledge of Latin, Italian, probably French or German, and certainly by 1975, English.
There's his bad accent BTW.
Back then not everybody got to go to university ~ so all those graduates of their universities were "special".
For quite a long time Continental European University level studies were more like the Upper Division in American universities (those 300 and 400 level courses) and many Master's programs.
The university track students were wrapping up Freshman and Sophomore college level materials in the equivalent of highschool.
Rossi's 3 or 4 years of university study is the rough equivalent of 5 or 6 years of American University study in an Engineering program.
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