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To: cowboyway; donmeaker
Oh I see so that sly old dog Lincoln tricked them rebels into shooting at American solders. That makes it's a ok. ;-p So let's say Jerry Brown says Cali is leaving the union so they can legalize cocaine and has the state police shoot up Vandenberg Air Force Base after they refuse to leave. I know which side I'd be on. ;)
77 posted on 12/25/2011 10:09:20 AM PST by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Impy
Oh I see so that sly old dog Lincoln tricked them rebels

As Judge Napolitano stated, they "fell for the ploy". Sad but true. I can provide you with precise details leading up to the commencement of hostilities if you're interested.

into shooting at American solders.

Southerners were/are Americans also, pal. I think the problem with you and your yankee ancestors is that you've always considered us Southerners as second class citizens or some sort of vassals to do your yankee bidding.

That makes it's a ok. ;-p

Was it ok to invade your neighbors, make war on non-combatants, steal their land and possessions, and then keep them under occupation and force them to pledge allegiance under gunpoint all for a lie? Do you believe that might makes right?

So let's say Jerry Brown says Cali is leaving the union so they can legalize cocaine

Why shouldn't cali be able to legalize coke or weed without leaving 'the union' if the citizens of cali so desire? Are you against states rights? For the record, I'm anti-drug and I would never vote for legalizing harmful drugs unless a compelling argument could be made that would convince me otherwise, but if the state of cali, or any other state, wants to legalize something and it's not unconstitutional then why shouldn't they be able to? What business is it of the federal governments?

You may not be able to understand this but the threat of secession was the only tool in the constitutional tool kit that could prevent the federal government from becoming the oppressive, invasive home to tyrants that it has become and you yankees saw to that. Happy?

Lincoln chose to ignore the historical underpinnings of the American political system; the right of secession followed from the American Revolution as the colonists separated from the British Empire and declared their independence. President Lincoln also made the faulty assumption that the Union takes precedence over the states, as the goal was to form a more perfect Union. He failed to recognize that states are free and independent, and combined they form the Union. As Ronald Reagan would say in his first inaugural address over a century later, "the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government." This subtle distinction is an important aspect of State sovereignty. The United States was founded on the ideals that federal power could be challenged by the states. Lincoln overlooked the fact that the states had formed a voluntary agreement and did not have the ability to surrender their sovereignty forever to a centralized power.

Nullification was also a fundamental state right to prevent federal domination. States enjoyed the right to use nullification as a protective measure against unconstitutional federal laws by making them ineffective against their citizens. Nullification had become a states rights tradition, and both the North and the South exercised it prior to 1861. The most famous examples of this in the North centered around Northern states personal liberty laws, a series of laws that were passed in response to the Fugitive Slave Act. Even though the U.S. Supreme Court found these laws, and thus nullification, unconstitutional in the 1842 case Prigg v. Pennsylvania Northern states, yes, Northern states, continued to enact laws that criminalized the return of fugitive slaves in direct defiance of federal law. Lincoln's attempt to trample the states sovereignty, even the rights of those opposed to slavery, only heightened the conflict between the advocates of a supreme, unchecked federal government and the advocates of a modest central government, tempered by nullification. South Carolina started the trend of secession in December 1860. Concerned with preserving the Union at all costs, Lincoln was determined to use military force to bring the rebel states into line. But he did not want to be portrayed as an aggressor and needed the South somehow to ignite the conflict. This would make the Southerners look like the aggressors and would give the impression that Lincoln simply had no choice but to declare war as a defense against aggression.---Judge Andrew Napolitano from Dred Scott's Revenge; A Legal History of Race and Freedom in America

Just for the record, are you an advocate of Big Government? Do you support the 0bama regime? Do you believe that my freedom and liberty is through the consent of you and other big government types instead of God given as the Founders stated?

and has the state police shoot up Vandenberg Air Force Base after they refuse to leave.

I would feel sorry for the state police.

I know which side I'd be on. ;)

So do I. Hell, I'll bet you're ironing your brown shirt and polishing your Hope and Change buttons even as we speak.

80 posted on 12/25/2011 11:29:56 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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