Posted on 12/24/2011 10:04:36 AM PST by sickoflibs
Very interesting idea...I like it a lot.
From the above I can tell you clearly understand what is going on. I appreciate your thoughtful questions.
Because it would be an 'option' it would make it politically uncomfortable for Obama to oppose, yet Democrats would demand that he oppose it. Pelosi still brags about killing this idea back in 2007.
Yes, Democrats would claim exactly what you say, that a savings account is NOT stimulus, but that is not how Republicans were trapped by Obama on this politically. Obama set out to make himself look like the the middle class tax cutter and Republicans 'the rich' tax cutter. That is how he cornered Republicans on this issue politically. This would turn the tables on Obama.
I don't even care if he signs it into law. Republicans need to change their strategy to stop looking foolish and instead put Obama back on the Defensive as he was last year. Because right now I am seeing a nightmare in 2013 called Barrack Obama.
This is simple replace it with the income tax cut= cut govt spending and watch the rats object
ever get to a point where you *know* that the only reason the GOP****s dont 'change strategy' is that they are doing exactely what they are supposed to do ???
when avg folks can see the insanity and hypocrisy from all over the country, these informed tools cant seem to figure out tht theyre being played ???
two sides of the same kabuki coin...*somebody* [both sides] has been guarenteed a spot at the table as long as they play the game and keep the herd grazing...
Let the rabble be able to afford a round of drinks on payday. That’s what this crap amounts to. Boehner had it right but the GOP intelligentsia made him back down. I don’t appreciate being part of a party that plays the fool and allows clowns like Reid and the Kenyan Kommunist to laugh at us.
Throughout the year I was hoping that Republicans could successfully point out the problem with this FICA/SS tax cut without being part of a SS benefit reform. But clearly they are not capable of taking this issue on seriously and win it. They won't even point out that there is no money in the 'trust fund'
One problem I notice. General voters, many under 40 and more-so the younger especially under 30 have no idea what the FICA tax is, or where it goes. Not only don't they know that the SS trust fund has been spent, but they don't even know that there is supposed to be a trust fund. They know they get charged payroll taxes and their grandparents and maybe parents get SS checks and medicare. And they have been told many times they probably won't get those benefits themselves.
This is what woke me up to this idea . Clearly the mass of potential votes don't have a clue what this is all about, Republicans are not capable of getting a message out, and so Obama has come up with a winning re-election theme for such a ignorant climate :”We want to cut taxes for the middle class while Republicans want to protect tax cuts for the rich” which is why they will resume calling for a surtax 'on the rich' to pay for this extension, just for political effect.
Now Republicans need to come up with a real strategy to take on Obama.
The Dems will be for payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits for the rest of the year paid for by higher income taxes. And, no, there will be no pipeline. Another cowardly unanimous consent vote?
You are exactly right, Gilbo.
No way on earth a group of professional politicians and their strategists are THIS STUPID AND INEPT time after time after time.
This is what they want. This is nothing more than kabuki theater designed to divide and conquer, to make us think we have some choice when in fact we do not.
The millionaire surtax is how they will want to pay for the next 10 months. How can the GOP vote against working Americans getting the amount needed to buy a round of drinks out of each paycheck.
No extra money in their January or February paycheck. This was a extension of existing.
I appreciate your frustration.
I am not convinced that Boehner is on the side you think he is. They way things worked out with the negotiations (which included Boehner), the dead end stand and then 'the cave' it looks to me like Boehner was on the other side just playing his members. The way he played it he let them ask him to give in after the pressure got too high.
The problem with the House Republicans strategy is they had no backup plan in case Obama and Reid stood firm and refused to call the Senate back. Their only backup plan appeared to be to surrender. Not much principles in that.
And I have no respect for those RINOs in the Senate and WSJ. They have no plan for winning this next year that I can see.
Worse than that.
The millionaire surtax Obama proposal is to span 10 years to cover the FICA/SS payroll tax cut of one year (10 months now) to get Obama through the election. The 3% FICA tax cut is even larger than the 2% millionaires tax surcharge which does not add it. This is a completely cynical proposal and Obama was outright lying when he said it pays for itself.
But Republicans were incapable of explaining it to voters. It is like they were told that if they repeat over and over:”Tax cuts for the rich are good for you too,” they would automatically win political battles in all circumstances. Well it didn't win them this battle. And Obama will take it up to beat Republicans over the again head next year. That is why I proposed a new strategy.
Gilb is the wisest of wise, how else to explain it?
The song goes like this :It doesn't matter how liberal the Republican is , how dishonest he is, how corrupt or stupid he is, or how many times he stabbed us in the back, it is still 100X, no 1000X better than the Democrat. In fact he is 90% of what we want so support him or die.
Gilb got that 90% lecture the other day..
To Sickoflibs et al:
I like your idea. But, refine this language, so that it is down to the “street level” and lib media cannot screw it up in to something else (which they will try to do in any case). Apologize in advance for the size of this— but I too am just livid with this lying mackdaddy fraud and his party.
When this comes up again, and it will in the Senate and House conference, Change the Game—Call it “PAYROLL TAX CHOICE”— extend the tax cut to 5 years, which the worker/taxpayer can either take in pay or direct to a “Private Personal Retirement Account” run by their own bank or credit union (a plan for working people-”PPRA01-K”). This covers two possibilities- if, as obamunistas claim this two month “cut” was/is so essential to the economy ($40) for only two months, then giving people the choice to have the cash in hand or put it into something they themselves control for 5 years -— Conservatism personified & Independence personified— would be an even greater “huge boost to the economy immediately and sustained for 5 years”.
The bookkeeping for this is simple— no bookkeeping costs at all— just no withhold anymore on this amount. The dirty details are that the original “payroll cut” bill (the one being extended) did not remove the requirement for the employer to pay their 6.2% share (self employed people all know this as they have to file quarterly). Did y’all know that?
So, the above plan at the same time, would have to eliminate the employer’s requirement to pay the 6.2%. Bigtime buy in from small and large employers. And this would mean more money for employers for MORE JOBS— again a win against the anti-jobs welfare libs and obama re-election. Can almost guarantee when this comes up again in Feb and this be proposed, you will have the lib/dems trying to say the Republicans want to “kill Social Security and Medicare”— The reply to that is obamacare already is doing rather for real right now and democrats don’t care. This is a pay checkbook issue that would put the dems in their place and make them show their cards and lies. So we need to prepare for that. Dems are not for working people, period, no matter what SEIU leadership says. Back them up to the wall!
One other observation: Joe Pags was in for Beck yesterday AM and it replayed today. This bill originated in the HOUSE, and it GAVE obama what he wanted— a year’s extension (despite the dog and pony lies he grandstanded with yesterday)-it also had the “doctor fix” on stopping Medicare payment rollbacks, and continued unemployment compensation— in other words, the HOUSE Majority- Republicans and only SOME dems— voted for this. Then the Senate repubs tagged on the pipeline (Pres must decide, w/in 60 days— a stupid ploy—he’ll say no) and the Senate dems in response (to appease their enviro nut lib base) reduced the extension of the cuts to two months. It was the lack of extension to one year that caused Boehner to stay NO, and for no rational reason to NOT double down on the “$40 is a lot of money” crap. THAT is how we got here.
So, for “optics” vs reality— here’s how Repubs/conservatives need to say this: “INSTEAD of what Republicans wanted, which was a whole YEAR at over $1K of take home pay for working Americans, the President and the democrat party insisted on reducing the amount of money in working people’s take home pay to a paltry $40/two week check (50K or lower annual gross pay) for ONLY the next two months-not a full year . WHY DID THE DEMOCRATS change this to a CHEAPSKATE move to only two months, and the President liken it to pizza money? To allow the President time to say NO the Pipeline project, and to 22,000 plus jobs which would immediately drop the price of crude oil and the price of gasoline at the pump. To allow the President to continue to subsidize FOREIGN OIL dependence with US taxpayers hard earned money— in exchange for $40 in pizza money. That is who this President is, and who the democrat party supports, while their insider pals in “green energy” govt. scams and “oil futures” and “finance” commodities (Corzine)rip off the taxpayers even further.” “Republicans are for the working people in this country being able to have a job,with more money in hand for their work, and for increasing job opportunities. Obviously, the President and democrats do not want this, or the independence of our country’s energy needs.” “Meanwhile the President then takes off for a $4million vacation in Hawaii on the taxpayer’s ticket, once again” Paint a picture. That’s the rhetoric— and it is also the Truth.
If any of y’all know your congress person who has a set, and/or Boehner, send it to them so they understand how to fight.
Boehner apparently was too slow to figure out(no thanks to McCain and Graham who made “statements” on their way out of DC early and there was something else pushing Boehner from McConnell’s side— we need to vote out dems in the Senate and their majority “rules”)he was being set up. But we have another chance to slam the lid on the democrat coffin. Things are not getting better, and they have made it worse.
“The song goes like this :It doesn’t matter how liberal the Republican is , how dishonest he is, how corrupt or stupid he is, or how many times he stabbed us in the back, it is still 100X, no 1000X better than the Democrat. In fact he is 90% of what we want so support him or die.”
But the Devil is always in the details, or so the saying goes.
I’m just not willing to play this game any longer.
They are all evil.
Boehner was offered a conference committee on the 1 year deal for relenting on the 2 months deal and I don’t think he took it. You don’t leave stuff on the table.
Boehner apparently was too slow to figure out(no thanks to McCain and Graham who made “statements” on their way out of DC early and there was something else pushing Boehner from McConnell’s side— we need to vote out dems in the Senate and their majority “rules”)he was being set up.
*if* these guys are so slow, dimbulbs, naive, whatever, how the hell did they get into positions of power ???
i realize that there are some honestly moronic folks on the left, who are there because their constituents are retarded, but for anyone wearing an 'R' next to their name, theyre shrewd lawyers for the most part...
lawyers are 'for hire' generally speaking, at least in my experience...no dimbulbs, but playing a role, anglin for a payday...
believing that they are any 'better' than bambam in the long run is the naivete...and the citizenry gets to pick a side and *think* that theyre makin some kind of difference...
the *perfect* candidate myth is gone in my view, and as SOL referenced, i have been baiting the ABBB crowd and refuting that, as well as our having a candidate anywhere near 50% or better at 'representing' my politics...
weve been screwed for my adult life, however, its just fairly recently i realized how much kabuki was really in the theatre, and reconciled that fact and being determined to not FEAR the inevitable any longer...
make peace with it and prepare for the future...
Because it seems that DC changes people who get elected. They want people to like and reelect them. Witness the whole freshman GOP class voting for Reid's $shit sandwich. DC is the perfect honey trap.
ding ding ding...literally $Trillions of OPM to get a piece of...and we all knows what happens if you drag a mere 100 dollar bill thru a line of sharks, er, um, lawyers...
My understanding is that the conference committee for the 10 month version (to be debated next year ) is part of the amended 2 month bill that both houses passed yesterday.
The question I have is : "How will a conference committee accomplish anymore than the deficit committee did?" We are talking about deep disagreements and political trench warfare here, well at least one side knows it's war anyway.
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