Posted on 12/24/2011 10:04:36 AM PST by sickoflibs
I looked through this thread and could not find a thorough discussion of this:
You propose giving a choice to opt out of at least part of the Govt. “retirement programs.” Guess what Obama and the MSM are going to argue? All those private investors who got swindled in 2008. Suppose Goldman, AIG, etc., also were responsible for a large part of what are now govt. retirement accounts? More bailouts, bigger bailouts (after those seniors lose their shorts in the markets, even if they opted out voluntarily, you are not going to let them starve, are you?). The markets are still going up and down, wildly.
The GOP can argue that Obama and the Dems are going to waste all the tax money anyway, but to do so successfully, they will have to learn how to sell messages. GWB couldn’t pull it off.
The deficit committee was supposed to come up with ideas and was extra congressional. A conference committee is used to reconcile different versions of a bill. The House has it's version of a yearly bill done. If the Senate wants to change it's bill more they will have to modify and vote on what the the House has. Better for the Republicans if they don't have to start over in the house.
G. W. couldn’t successfully argue water was wet to a win.
Taking those six marbles out of his mouth would have been an improvement.
True, but how many can argue conservate side in a way that reaches the souls of common voters? And even if we had many such voices, one example of what we are up against, the Austin news headline was not "Senate Democrats reject one year extension of middle class tax cuts," but something like "House GOP finally accepts middle class tax cuts."
Always appreciate your comments.
Much like they did to successfully kill Bush SS reform.
However there is one key difference between this idea now and Bush plan then. Back then Democrats were arguing that using FICA taxes for any other purpose than SS would destroy it. Now they are arguing the exact opposite that SS doesn't even need those FICA taxes because of a huge trust fund, and they are winning that argument against Republicans who don't know how to use it against them.
What if the investments/savings had to be FDIC insured investments but otherwise managed as an IRA is?
Democrats could argue again that Wall Street might lose the money again, but right now they are arguing for (consumer) spending that FICA tax money now, so it definitely won't be there for retirement anyway. I think this would be an easy one for Republicans to win.
But Republicans won't come up with any new ideas, they will repeat the EXACT same arguments over and over to voters: “ We cant afford your entitlements but tax cuts for the rich help us all ” and continue to get creamed as Democrats continue their response “ They put the rich ahead of you middle class voters. See who they protect. See who they want to screw. ” and continue to lose every battle as they had since they took the house. If they don't come up with a better strategy we are looking at 2012 being another 2009 (Pelosi and Obama in charge again.)
The congressional Republicans got themselves in that mess because earlier in the the year when Obama made the year long FICA/SS tax cut(which was originally passed by the Pelosi House a year ago) extension part of his jobs bill Boehner and others responded by saying that they were not interested in extending it as it didn't work to create jobs. Then they later said they would extend it but it had to be paid for with spending cuts after seeing how it was being used against them. But that was a contradiction too because Republicans has typically said that tax cuts should never have to be paid for. In fact just a year ago Rush did a whole segment lecture on this saying tax cuts should never HAVE to be paid for. Then realizing how popular this FICA/SS give-away was the congressional Republicans at the end said that they really were holding firm that the break has to be a whole year. In other words they really don't have a consistent position on this and Democrats have been using that against them.
Part of their difficulty is Obama’s re-election populist message : “ They put the rich ahead of you middle class voters. See who they protect. See who they want to screw. ”
Republicans don't seem to have a clue on how to counter this one. And starting in January you will hear it repeated again and again and watch Republicans lose again. This post was my example how a different strategy could throw Democrats off message.
“They put the rich ahead of you middle class voters. See who they protect. See who they want to screw. ”
Republicans don’t seem to have a clue on how to counter this one.”
I could counter this one in my sleep......
Vote for Obama, and there won’t be ANY MIDDLE CLASS VOTERS LEFT!!
Merry Christmas to you all.
” G. W. couldn’t successfully argue water was wet to a win.
Taking those six marbles out of his mouth would have been an improvement.”
LOL....Merry Christmas to you.
Sorry I’m not around much. Too busy.
I don’t disagree with the dynamic you present, the headline bias. For me the biggest problem is that our most visible leaders don’t promote or even adhere to Conservatism.
Smaller Government? Medicare Part D
Sovereignty? Why round ‘em up and make ‘em citizens - Sign on to any multi-nation agreement, even if it infringes on self-determination - talk up the U. N. and or one world government - send your people to North American Union negotiations
Defense? We not only allow our Navy to remain at half the strength it had under Reagan, we formalize the one theater level of military preparedness
After this sort of thing, why of course, we go out and try to argue smaller government, sovereignty, and military issues against our opponent. Surprisingly (/s) it doesn’t work. Can’t for the life of me understand why. /s
Except Democrats have been making that case all year (since Republicans took the house) about Republicans.
Remember all the Republican predictions last year that Obama wouldn't even run for re-election?? Remember how Rush kept saying Obama didn't even want win re-election? Remember the posts saying Republicans could put up anyone and anyone would beat him next election 2012? Well how did someone who doesn't even want to win pull this off this week and get Republicans to cave?
Republicans need to break out of their "We are always winning no matter what it looks like" echo chamber and learn how to fight him or we will be waking to an Obama 2013.
The same way the GOP has always done it: It was "their turn."
Merry Christmas to you. I was wondering about you. Glad to hear from you. I’m also glad you’re busy being productive. Excellent.
Drop in when you can.
There was not enough coming in to keep it going beyond 20 years anyway, now the incoming has been reduced. So, without massive cuts in benefits, the "years remaining for SS" projections will become shorter and shorter. And AARP sits on it's A$$.
"(Actually I think there is a tax on Fannie and Freddie transactions in this two month bill.)"
Yes, it's the "pay for" for this cut. BUT, I don't consider it real. It's over 10 years, on mortgages over 200k, but it is based on assumptions of the number and amount of housing transactions over those 10 years. So it is BS and the Dems and Repubs BOTH know it.
Did you notice that the Dems cut Medicare $500 million in order to get Obamacare past the CBO (Congressional Budget Office), but now the money is being restored, as Repubs predicted, and the Repubs are not saying a word?
That would be an improvement, although Dems might argue that "FDIC Insured" can also lead to a kind of bailout (in fact, some in the GOP might oppose it for the same reason). But it would show that the GOP is aware that the Dems are trying for an ambush every time, instead of happily walking into the ambush, followed by a quick surrender.
"I think this would be an easy one for Republicans to win" may be a little optimistic, but it's better than a guaranteed defeat.
Conservatism is not for cowards, but looks like we are getting Romney. The tradition continues...
If the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of our government and the SEC were doing their jobs, we wouldn’t have to worry about this sort of thing.
These entities laid this at the feet of the financial institutions, even though they essentially forced those institutions into bankruptcy, and or watched on as sub-prime mortgages and the paper created by them, were devised and traded with glee.
Who stepped in to stop it in it’s tracks? NOBODY!
They essentially destroyed the credibility of Capitalism in on fell swoop.
Capitalism produces prosperity, when it is implemented properly. If we don’t understand that, believe it, and champion it, who will?
Seriously folks, either we say what I have said and support Capitalism, or we should simply lock the doors and go home, then allow socialism to rear it’s head so tens (if not hundreds) of millions more people can die in it’s sharp cold talons.
It sure does look that way.
I just don’t want folks in 2024 to misunderstand what took place here. If Romeny is nominated, we don’t deserve to win. He is the absolutely worst candidate. So was McCain. So was Dole.
10 YEARS??? Thanks for clarifying that, That's the same 10 year scam that Obama was trying to pull with his tax surcharge on the rich to pay for it. And so Senate RINOs pulled the same thing on the compromise bill funding.
This explains (another reason) why Republicans never challenged the millionaires tax surcharge on the grounds that paying for a 1 year tax cut with a 10 year tax increase is just downright dishonest.
Maybe but it would force Democrats to oppose :
1) Taxpayers getting a personal choice/option on the FICA tax cut
2) Americans saving for their own retirement rather than having to beg the Obama type POTUS to tax the rich so they can get a few crumbs from SS in the future retirement. If any savings is a crap shoot rip-off with Wall street then we have no choice but to beg for welfare when we retire. They would be making that case.
And like I said, Democrats came up with the FICA tax cut with the Pelosi House a year ago, and they will demand it's extension through the election. Even after that who in DC will call for it to expire after these debates between parties?
Because of this the retirement savings option is essentially free and cannot be accused of taking money from SS.
If Republicans continue the same arguments they been using since the 90s we are doomed. Romney was already repeating Obama’s SAME DAY talking points on how Americans need this $40 FICA break to survive. Wait till the general election.
You are right about Republicans not able to send clear messages, it's pathetic
Will do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.