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Triangulating Minor's definition of Natural-Born Citizen; why it's an exclusive definition
equilateral triangle ^ | 02-07-2012 | edge919

Posted on 02/07/2012 1:50:19 PM PST by edge919

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In Obama's case, he is a square with one of its sides missing. In that case, he is neither an equilateral triangle (natural-born citizen) or even a triangle (citizen). The shape must be changed in order to fit the triangle definition, the same way a person has to be naturalized in order to be recognized as a citizen. First, Obama has to prove his three sides are actually connected ... which is an analogy to coming up with a birth certificate. While that might prove he is a triangle, it cannot give him equal vertices (same as he can't be a natural-born citizen). There's nothing natural about a bent square. Hope this helps and for those who need visual aids, draw a few shapes and label them appropriately.

Equilateral triangle = NBC
Isosceles triangle = naturalized citizen
Square minus one side = Obama

1 posted on 02/07/2012 1:50:23 PM PST by edge919
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To: edge919
The analogy doesn't work for several reasons, but most importantly because there are actual legal reasons for saying one can be a natural born citizen "without reference to the citizenship of their parents," including British common law and the 14th amendment.

For a triangle, you can say it's in doubt because the number of sides is unknown, but there's no argument for saying the number of sides is unimportant to the argument, unless you get into non-Euclidean geometry, which is the mathematical equivalent of a birther legal fantasy land.

2 posted on 02/07/2012 4:13:24 PM PST by Kleon
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To: Kleon

Euclidean geometry is too superficial. It lacks depth.


3 posted on 02/07/2012 4:20:25 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: edge919
Venn diagraming might help.

There are two large, unconnected circles which represent the two major categories of citizenship. One circle is the naturlaized citizen. The other circle has at least three smaller circles within it: citizen by place of birth, as separate from citizen by parents at birth, and citizen by both parents and place of birth, of that category there has never been dispute. That third category is where the other two inner circles overlap, forming the jus soli + jus sanguina category of which Rep. The Minor v Hapersett & Rep. Howard (author of the 14th Amend.) said there had never been any dispute.

4 posted on 02/07/2012 4:21:19 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: El Sordo
Don't be so obtuse. ;-)

-PJ

5 posted on 02/07/2012 4:25:32 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: MHGinTN

That is what diagram Van Irion held up in his presentation to Malihi.


6 posted on 02/07/2012 4:26:26 PM PST by Obama Exposer
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To: edge919
You could just as easily rewrite it this way:
At common mathematical law, with the nomenclature known by geometrists, it was never doubted that all polygons with three equal sides and equal vertex angles are triangles. These are the regular triangles, or equilateral triangles, as distinguished from squares and pentagons. Some experts go further and include as triangles all shapes with three sides without reference to the length of their sides. As to this class there are doubts, but never to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now that all shapes composed of three equal sides with equal vertex angles are triangles."
which is the way those of us who disagree with you have been saying it should be read. The problem with yours is that you left out anything analogous to "born within the jurisdiction," a problem my "with three sides" addresses.
7 posted on 02/07/2012 4:28:19 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Obama Exposer
That is what diagram Van Irion held up in his presentation to Malihi.

So it was a Van Venn diagram?

8 posted on 02/07/2012 4:30:12 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Obama Exposer

It is so common sense that I’m not surprised such a clear illustration was ignored by the obamanoid judge. Had he acknowledged even comprehending it the specious Ankeny ruling would not have been cited. But then Judge Malihi didn’t formulate what he wrote anyway, the Chicago mob did.


9 posted on 02/07/2012 4:41:20 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: All

Van Irion’s venn diagram can be seen here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/76900058/Flier-Handout-Obama-Not-a-Natural-Born-Citizen-with-Venn-Diagram-Support-Art2SuperPAC


10 posted on 02/07/2012 5:16:36 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: MHGinTN

FWIW, Van Irion’s diagram appears to state that children born to US parents outside the boundaries of the US are not NBC’s.


11 posted on 02/07/2012 5:21:40 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: El Sordo
You cannot be thazt stupid ... but then you are just a not so stealthy agitprop.

I'll explain, doofus:

The large circle is native born, and inside the larger circle are to two smaller circles which overlap each other at the third category of both jus soli and jus sanguina, the formula about which there has never been dispute, NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Yoou try so hard to be a prick that you prick yourself with your point, little nettle. Now loosen your obamanoid kneepads and find some other tale to chase.

12 posted on 02/07/2012 5:55:39 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Ahhh, MHG. Always the charmer.

Just so we’re clear, no one born outside of US borders can be an NBC under any circumstances?


13 posted on 02/07/2012 6:03:56 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: El Sordo
Go find your passy, you're drooling spittle again as you wobble around in circles. The largest group is native born; within the largest group are two smaller groups, jus soli and jus sanguina; where the two smaller circles overlap is Natuiral Born Citizen about which there has never been dispute.

Give it another try, obamanoid. Try to make it confusing when it is so clear. Spittle way, doofus.

14 posted on 02/07/2012 6:10:20 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Kleon

Thanks for confirming that the analogy is dead on. This follows the exact language of Minor. What you’re referencing is irrelevant because the Minor court already said NBC is NOT defined by the 14th amendment. Wong Kim Ark confirmed this point.


15 posted on 02/07/2012 7:14:36 PM PST by edge919
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To: MHGinTN

This has nothing to do with Venn diagramming. Evidently you’ve become confused because I used a triangle analogy. This is about the language, not a diagram. I suggested pictures of triangles only to help visualize the difference between the words.


16 posted on 02/07/2012 7:17:05 PM PST by edge919
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

“All shapes” is the phrase that is analogous with “children born within the jurisdiction” ... the extra detail you came up with doesn’t change the obvious fact that equilateral triangle is only defined by the criteria in the preceding sentence.


17 posted on 02/07/2012 7:26:36 PM PST by edge919
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To: MHGinTN
Ahhh, the sterling coherence of ideas that we have come to love from Birthers.

It is just staggering that you haven't convinced the world yet.

18 posted on 02/07/2012 8:09:08 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: edge919
“All shapes” is the phrase that is analogous with “children born within the jurisdiction”

But it's not, because there's no restriction on "all shapes." It doesn't say "some authorities go further and include as citizens all children," it says "children who meet a certain criterion." Your analogy isn't working.

But let's say you tweak it so it works. You have to admit that my version is just as valid as yours. Which means that the multiple courts who read Minor the way I do aren't "wrong," as you keep insisting. They just disagree with you.

19 posted on 02/07/2012 8:17:22 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

The way you “tweaked” it doesn’t change that the definition was used in an exclusive manner. The only way the second class can be equal to the first class is by meeting the criteria used exclusively to define that first class. This proves without doubt the courts such as Ankeny are reading it wrong. Wong Kim Ark did NOT read it wrong. Extending the triangle analogy, they used a broader definition of “triangle” and characterized that definition with a completely different term to avoid calling or equating Ark’s citizenship with an “equilateral triangle.”


20 posted on 02/07/2012 10:23:22 PM PST by edge919
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