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To: Dutchboy88

It’s easy to see scriptural examples of predestination, election & foreknowledge. But to imply it’s universal, with absolutely no free will is a stretch. God is sovereign over all things, but that doesn’t mean he allows absolutely no free will at any time.

Your desire to argue the point implies free will, since you desire to convince others. If there is absolutely no free will, then there is no convincing, since God would be controlling all knowledge, all desire, all thoughts, etc. If there is absolutely no free will, then not even your worship is real worship. Scriptural warnings would be meaningless. Scriptural admonitions would be meaningless.

Any truth can be stretched to the point of heresy.


9 posted on 03/02/2012 9:53:39 AM PST by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...
"Your desire to argue the point implies free will, since you desire to convince others. If there is absolutely no free will, then there is no convincing, since God would be controlling all knowledge, all desire, all thoughts, etc."

Tortured logic, my FRiend. But, even that is driven by God. God is moving both you and I to interact over this point. And, such exquisite control is thorooughly described in the Scriptures. He asks us teach the truth, then He guides all teaching, whether truthful or heretical.

Again, please tell us from Scripture, where do you find the doctrine of free will? And, by that I mean, please help us see where the Scripture teaches that mankind is making independent decisions, choices unaffected by God.

Even careful thinking would reveal that man's free will is a doctrine severely impacted by God's forecknowledge. That is, if God knows exactly what you are going to do tomorrow at 9:15am, is that action/thought already determined? If not, how would He know what it is you are going to do? If He knows something, what is it that He knows? Could you do something that surprised Him? But, if that action/thought is absolute (and there are not two/three/or more possible realities of the future), then you are playing out a divinely determined script that you simply cannot "feel". That you are a creature, and not the Creator, may irritate you, but that does not change reality in which the Scriptures describe you living.

You likely have heard of Clark Pinnock, the great Nazarene theologian, who took up an Arminian view of free will due to a similar distaste for the implications of divine determinism. Shortly before his death, however, he went completely off the reservation into Open Theology finding there is no reconciling free will to foreknowledge. One or the other had to go. He chose foreknowledge to go (guided, we believe, by God).

He argued, if free will is true, God must not be able to know what you are going to do in advance or it would not preserve a man's true "freedom". If we attempt to equivocate this to Him guessing within a few possiblities, our doctrine of "foreknowledge" no longer comports with Scripture. But, that leaves God learning the future right along with us humans...oila' Open Theology. Hopefully, this has not captured your heart the way it did Pinnock's.

Please understand, this is not an attempt to badger you into believing "one side of the argument". It is the biblical position supported by Scripture, and the opposite is the heresy you dislike. I share that dislike of heresy. Teach us from Scripture.

10 posted on 03/02/2012 10:34:29 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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