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Did Norman Thomas really say that America would not knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of
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Posted on 04/03/2012 8:55:38 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica

I personally think the quote is unreliable, but see below - he's not alone. Norman Thomas is quoted as saying:

Yet the country has grown more and more socialistc and this soft-spoken kindly man of 82 years has planned it that way. "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

The closest I can come to sourcing that is this article from a 1967 newspaper. The part that's italicized above does not appear to be Thomas' words, rather, this article is a puff piece. Now if this stand alone unsourced quote is good enough for you, have at it. It's not for me. This was all supposedly said in a 1944 speech, so if I don't have the speech itself, the whole thing, I'd say just find and use something else.

Like this for example.

In the organ for Fabian Socialists in the United States, the "American Fabian" magazine, the following is written about Edward Bellamy:(June, 1898)

In Bellamy, social science and imagination were combined at their best. He has given us a substantial revelation whose scientific deductions from economic phenomena are unassailable. In the work of speeding the light he has made the valued distinction between Nationalism and Socialism. Nations advance toward their destiny upon lines marked out by the temper of their peoples, the character of their institutions, the conditions of soil, climate, and surroundings. Consequently the forward movement must be by national rather than international pathways. Bellamy saw this clearly, and formulating his Socialism to a purely American applicability, named it Nationalism. What has been the result? We hear no more the philistine cry that Socialism is an alien product. The far-reaching influence of "Looking Backward" has given us a native development of this definite form of Socialism, and has made possible the realization of his dreams in the near future.

Now this is an interesting concept. Tyranny has been Americanized - even if it's largely in title only. For those of you who don't know who Edward Bellamy was, he was(besides the obvious mentions above in this glowing eulogy - a nationalist-socialist) the ideological head of so called 'Nationalist Clubs around the states, and he was also associated with the Fabians toward the end of his life.

This does in a way back up the Thomas quote, in that this is what socialists and progressives do, they always do it and they keep doing it. They re-name themselves and their efforts in order to be more palatable even though it's largely the same thing. They'll do full scale people laundering if they have to.

If anybody knows where to get the full 1944 Thomas speech, send it to me and I'll post it.(except for copyright issues, of course) Heck, being as it's this hard to find, you get it to me with verification and I'll read it and you tube it, so that it can't be hidden again.

Bellamy's book "Looking Backward" is available as an audiobook for those who don't have time or would prefer that than to read it.

TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: 2012; fabian; fabiansocialists; progressingamerica; progressives; socialism; socialistdemocrats

1 posted on 04/03/2012 8:55:43 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica
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To: RetSignman; vanilla swirl; right way right; Tahoe3002; libertarian27; Noumenon; JDoutrider; ...
If anybody wants on/off the revolutionary progressivism ping list, send me a message

Summary: A socialist wolf in nationalist' clothing

2 posted on 04/03/2012 8:57:34 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
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To: RetSignman; vanilla swirl; right way right; Tahoe3002; libertarian27; Noumenon; JDoutrider; ...
The thought occurs to me........ on page 163 of The Road to Serfdom, Hayek points out how "most planners are militant nationalists".

Van Jones started out as a nationalist, for example. In the East Bay Express, the article titled "The New Face of Environmentalism" says this:

But in jail, he said, "I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, 'This is what I need to be a part of.'" Although he already had a plane ticket, he decided to stay in San Francisco. "I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary." In the months that followed, he let go of any lingering thoughts that he might fit in with the status quo. "I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th," he said. "By August, I was a communist."

Notice how vividly he recalls the story of his conversion to communism. This is important, because when people have big turning points in their lives, the details are usually memorable. Searching for this, there is a lot of revisionist history out there on this. This article comes to the following conclusion: "That doesn't sound Marxist to us." Which is totally laughable.

The problem for them, is that for people who have actually lived under communism, they can't help but notice the similarities.

This ideology preaches earth and nature and under the slogans of their protection – similarly to the old Marxists - wants to replace the free and spontaneous evolution of mankind by a sort of central, now global, planning of the whole world

So then the real question to ask is "where has Van Jones ever repudiated communism and centralized planning?" Just because he's silent about his beliefs and has a new way to sell them, is a far cry from having flipped over to something completely new and different, of course, notice how there's no vivid recalling of his turning point away from centralized planning.

3 posted on 04/03/2012 9:06:16 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
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To: ProgressingAmerica

I heard it was Khruschev who said it in 1959.

4 posted on 04/03/2012 9:49:22 AM PDT by kkalman
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