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To: count-your-change
As a rule...Lowering the norms for personal behavior takes away freedom for all.

Yet you refuse to support raising the norms for personal behavior by banning the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol, which is very often used to impair mental ability and judgment.

The libertines blab about rights but never obligations.

I don't know about libertines - libertarians recognize the obligation to respect the individual rights of others. What other obligations do you claim that free men have?

As part of that percentage that does not use drugs I have rights too

Which "rights" do you claim would be violated by legality of currently illegal drugs? And how are those "rights" not violated by legality of the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol?

so while I can see prosecuting a war on drug use and would certainly fight it differently I’m not the least inclined to surrender.

Yet you support our surrender in the war on the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol, which is very often used to impair mental ability and judgment.

24 posted on 11/15/2012 7:45:56 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("mouth piece from the pit of hell" (Bellflower, 11/10/2012))
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To: JustSayNoToNannies
You're attempting to equate alcohol with pot or other drugs by attaching the phrase “mind altering drug” to it. A simple hot meal can be “mind altering”, a needle of insulin can be “mind altering”.

Alcohol can and has been used for centuries as a food without being used to impair judgment and ability even if often abused.

Illicit drugs have no appeal unless they are used to impair judgment and ability. Some of these drugs can be used for medical reasons, cocaine, barbiturates, meth, opium, perhaps even pot but no heroine user would shoot up without experiencing the “mind altering” effects except to prevent withdrawal.

No, I don't favor a Prohibition Era style ban on alcohol for the reasons above but I have no trouble at all with tightening restrictions on it far more than what exists.

“Yet you support our surrender in the war on the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol, which is very often used to impair mental ability and judgment”

I support no such surrender at all. Getting high, getting drunk, getting “buzzed”, whatever term is used, is manifestly a lack of self control and an unwillingness to adhere to accepted social norms in all areas of life.

The so-called libertarians are mostly just libertines under the skin.

My rights? I have a right to work beside someone who is not shaking and sweating from the meth he took so he could work eighteen hours straight, I have a right to use the city park I've paid for without having to step around used needles and condoms. I have a right not to have my neighborhood turned into a cesspool like parts of San Francisco is.

And I also have a right to expect my fellow citizens to obey even unpopular laws even those that appear “victimless” on the surface.

“What other obligations do you claim that free men have?”

Only two very broad obligations: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

25 posted on 11/15/2012 11:38:09 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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