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To: Jeff Winston
I know you disagree. But since your opinion (which is all that it is) goes against virtually every authority throughout the entirety of United States history, including people who were close to the Founding Fathers, such as William Rawle, your opinion just doesn't count for very much.

William Rawle, wasn't he that London trained son of the British Loyalist Mayor of Philadelphia during the Revolutionary war?

Do you mean to tell me that a guy who was on the OTHER SIDE during the war, and trained in British Law might have a BRITISH understanding of the Law? Heaven forfend!

Yeah, you'll have to do better than that. I would be embarrassed to base my argument on a British trained Son of British Loyalist who was on the other side during the War of Independence.

As you know, two Supreme Court Justices (Chief Justice Marshall and Justice Washington) absolutely crush Rawle's allegations in the case of:

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

Chief Justice Marshall

Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights."

Supreme Court Justice Washington:

1. The writers upon the law of nations distinguish between a temporary residence in a foreign country for a special purpose and a residence accompanied with an intention to make it a permanent place of abode. The latter is styled by Vattel "domicile," which he defines to be, "a habitation fixed in any place, with an intention of always staying there." Such a person, says this author, becomes a member of the new society, at least as a permanent inhabitant, and is a kind of citizen of an inferior order from the native citizens, but is nevertheless united and subject to the society without participating in all its advantages. This right of domicile, he continues, is not established unless the person makes sufficiently known his intention of fixing there, either tacitly or by an express declaration. Vatt. 92-93. Grotius nowhere uses the word "domicile," but he also distinguishes between those who stay in a foreign country by the necessity of their affairs or from any other temporary cause and those who reside there from a permanent cause. The former he denominates "strangers" and the latter "subjects," and it will presently be seen by a reference to the same author what different consequences these two characters draw after them.

580 posted on 03/09/2013 4:38:58 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
William Rawle, wasn't he that London trained son of the British Loyalist Mayor of Philadelphia during the Revolutionary war?

Do you mean to tell me that a guy who was on the OTHER SIDE during the war, and trained in British Law might have a BRITISH understanding of the Law? Heaven forfend!

Your vicious and unjustified attack on William Rawle is a clear sign of your corrupt, no-holds-barred attachment to your completely false birther theory.

Yes, Rawle had a British Loyalist stepfather, and the same article you cited noted that Rawle himself felt a "sense of humiliation over his family's British sympathies."

So for you to claim, falsely, that Rawle "was on the OTHER SIDE during the war" is flat-out despicable.

Incidentally, the same article notes that Rawle only spent a total of two years studying in England AND traveling through Europe. I can imagine the latter probably took up at least half of that.

All of which was well before he sat WITH BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND GEORGE WASHINGTON at Franklin's house.

You also neglected to mention that Rawle was appointed BY GEORGE WASHINGTON in 1791 as U.S. District Attorney for the entire State of Pennsylvania.

Finally, we can note that not only was Rawle's statement about the children of aliens CRYSTAL clear, NOBODY EVER CONTESTED IT. Nobody ever said that Rawle was wrong. On the contrary, his quote was later referenced as authority by the United States Supreme Court.

597 posted on 03/09/2013 5:01:46 PM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: DiogenesLamp; Jeff Winston

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/12/253/

Ah yes...a case involving INTERNATIONAL LAW, not US citizenship law, where it was detrmined:

“If a citizen of the United States establishes his domicile in a foreign country between which and the United States hostilities afterwards break out, any property shipped by such citizen before knowledge of the war and captured by an American cruiser after the declaration of war must be condemned as lawful prize.”

This was hardly a case about US citizenship...indeed:

“Maitland, McGregor and Jones were native British subjects, who came to the United States many years prior to the present war, and, after the regular period of residence, were admitted to the rights of naturalization. Sometime after this, but long prior to the declaration of war, they returned to Great Britain, settled themselves there, and engaged in the trade of that country, where they were found carrying on their commercial business at the time these shipments were made and at the time of the capture.”


598 posted on 03/09/2013 5:02:37 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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