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To: OneWingedShark

If there were private citizens with cannon in 1789, I am not aware of it!

Plus could you really “bear” a cannon? Doesn’t bear in that context mean hold up its weight with your body?

I guess you can tell the gun control debate is not the one that really gets me going. But I am happy to support the views of my fellow conservatives who feel strongly about it, just as they back me to the hilt on the need to reduce middle class entitlement spending.


29 posted on 04/25/2013 11:27:54 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on
If there were private citizens with cannon in 1789, I am not aware of it!

Look into the warships used in the revolution. -- Plus there's this (see cite #51).

Plus could you really “bear” a cannon? Doesn’t bear in that context mean hold up its weight with your body?

Your misconception here is due to the subtle change in the meaning of "to bear arms" over the past century or so due to subtle changes in the connotation (due to usage frequency) of the word 'bear'.

BEAR - verb (used with object)

  1. to hold up; support: to bear the weight of the roof.
  2. to hold or remain firm under (a load): The roof will not bear the strain of his weight.
  3. to bring forth (young); give birth to: to bear a child.
  4. to produce by natural growth: a tree that bears fruit.
  5. to hold up under; be capable of: His claim doesn't bear close examination.
  6. to press or push against: The crowd was borne back by the police.
  7. to hold or carry (oneself, one's body, one's head, etc.): to bear oneself erectly.
  8. to conduct (oneself): to bear oneself bravely.
  9. to suffer; endure; undergo: to bear the blame.
  10. to sustain without yielding or suffering injury; tolerate (usually used in negative constructions, unless qualified): I can't bear your nagging. I can hardly bear to see her suffering so.
  11. to be fit for or worthy of: It doesn't bear repeating.
  12. to carry; bring: to bear gifts.
  13. to carry in the mind or heart: to bear love; to bear malice.
  14. to transmit or spread (gossip, tales, etc.).
  15. to render; afford; give: to bear witness; to bear testimony.
  16. to lead; guide; take: They bore him home.
  17. to have and be entitled to: to bear title.
  18. to exhibit; show: to bear a resemblance.
  19. to accept or have, as an obligation: to bear responsibility; to bear the cost.
  20. to stand in (a relation or ratio); have or show correlatively: the relation that price bears to profit.
  21. to possess, as a quality or characteristic; have in or on: to bear traces; to bear an inscription.
  22. to have and use; exercise: to bear authority; to bear sway.
As you can see there's a lot of meanings to the word 'bear' -- but we can group them into "idea-classes" if you will:
Now, in order to understand what it is "to bear arms" you need to cast your mind into feudal ages -- where a lord was obligated to render up the men/arms for an army [and/or navy] -- this, incidentally, is not solely a western as feudal Japan was similar. It was not uncommon for the common-man under the lord to be able to own/use private arms, but due to the nature of mankind it would change into a system where the common-man was disbarred the use of arms with exceptions so that the common men would not overthrow the lord. This led to a system of nobles, who had as their birthright the ownership and usage of weapons (in Japan this was the Samurai caste). -- This also gave rise to the right to bear arms as separate from ownership: the right to bear was the right to use, and the right to keep was the right to own. These were distinct in the time of knights so that they could muster an army (and also legally justify squires/armor-bearers).

In light of that understanding it is obvious that the 2ND amendment is, in effect, the enobling of every citizen -- as Coxe said:

The power of the sword, say the minority..., is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people.

Tench Coxe -- The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

I guess you can tell the gun control debate is not the one that really gets me going. But I am happy to support the views of my fellow conservatives who feel strongly about it, just as they back me to the hilt on the need to reduce middle class entitlement spending.

It's something I do feel strongly about, because the absolute nature of the language is indicative of how just the government, especially the judiciary, is.

30 posted on 04/25/2013 4:31:47 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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