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To: YHAOS
I think it is dangerous (conceptually) not to make a distinction between the rights of individuals and the powers of a state.

The distinction is in the modifier: individual rights, state rights, individual powers, state powers (whatever any of the foregoing may be).

You question referring to “states” as “ruling regimes.” I honestly do not know what to call them if not that.

a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government.

Or

a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign

When I think of a "state" I think of more than the ruling regime. I think of the people, the territority they occupy, their government, the things that bind them together, not just the rulers. The ruling regime may change while the state remains.

As to the "consent of the governed", the words trouble me. I don't know if there is a government that has the consent of all of the governed on a national scale, at least not in all matters.

325 posted on 01/17/2014 3:55:15 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle; Vaquero; Wyrd bið ful aræd
As to the “consent of the governed”, the words trouble me.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” (emphasis mine)

Do you recognize the above phrase? Are you equally troubled by the expression “all men are created equal”? How far do you suppose any responsive government should take the meaning of that expression on a national scale? Should it demand that every person must have the same number of bathrooms in every home? The same square feet? The same climate control? The same quality and quantity of food and clothing? The identical level of education?

By the same token, are governments “instituted among men” to control their every movement and choice, or do governments exist and derive their “just powers” in order to secure the “certain unalienable rights” of every person? Which sort of government would have your consent? Would you prefer a ruling regime of unlimited powers? Would your choice hinge on whether or not you are a member of the ruling elite?

I’m not demanding you agree with me. I’m simply asking you think a little about the proposition.

326 posted on 01/17/2014 5:07:40 PM PST by YHAOS
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