[Pharmboy]

It's hard to pick up on nuance in posts, but I believe you were agreeing with me (I could be wrong, though). And here is a genetic study which corroborates the 40% number from the twin data you cite.

[FredZarguna]

I was agreeing with you, mostly. I don't really think it's "hard-wired" in the sense that, say, trisomy-21 or club foot are, but the evidence is that there's some predisposition for males.

I've known quite a few lesbians. Every single one of them either had either very devastating or abusive heterosexual relationships, or were bisexual.

It has now passed into a truism that no one "chooses" homosexuality, this despite the fact that the scanty evidence we have says that it's no more than a predisposition for some males, and is most certainly not the least bit genetic for females. Scientists -- at least in the Downfallen West -- will not be permitted to carry on much further research in this area, or to publish the results if they're heterodox.

Still, when you point out to homosexuals that the evidence isn't really on their side, their reply is: "I can prove it to you. When did you choose to be straight?"

I've even heard the idiot Bill O'Reilly spouting this nonsense as "proof" that homosexuality isn't learned/chosen. [Because no one would "choose" to be homosexual if they had a choice.]

The problem with that "argument" is that it can be applied with equal efficacy to any non-normative, destructive behavior, and in the cases where you do that it quickly becomes clear by reductio ad absurdum how silly it is. When did millions of people "choose" to become alcoholics? When did millions of people "choose" to become junkies? When did millions of people "choose" to become compulsive gamblers, wife beaters, pedophiles, serial killers ... because no one would "choose" those lives if they really had a choice.

The flip side, that it must be hard-wired because nobody gets "cured" is equally dumb. Again, look at substance abuse. With all the societal pressure not to be an addict, and all the support available from friends, families and employers, and despite the enormous economic and personal costs, the very sad truth is that drug/alcohol rehab simply does not work for all but a relatively small handful of people. Fewer than 1 out of 20 substance abusers are cured by rehab programs. With the logic applied to homosexuals, that means we should stop trying to save the people that we can. [The 5% of addicts we save are worth saving, after all.]