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1 posted on 02/16/2015 1:02:53 PM PST by CaptainPhilFan
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To: CaptainPhilFan

There were handwritten versions of Hebrew Scipture long before Christ’s birth as well as gospels and epistles written by the apostles after His death. This is likely what the Koran is referring to.


2 posted on 02/16/2015 1:08:30 PM PST by Dr. Thorne ("Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads." - Luke 21:28)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

The first bible printed on a movable type press was in 1450. Books (originally called a codex) were around from the beginning of Christianity. The bible in book form existed before Mohammed. It is questionable if Mohammed ever saw such a book, so that’s just one of those things that Satan told him about as he dictated the anti-bible to Mohammed.


3 posted on 02/16/2015 1:09:47 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

Try 700AD.


5 posted on 02/16/2015 1:19:52 PM PST by BubbaBasher ("Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals" - Sam Adams)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

Hebrew Bible (all books except Esther) we now have copies from 200 BC/BCE...to about 100 CE .....
Greek Bible we have most of the text from at least 300 CE.
Mohammed didn’t live until 400 years after that.


8 posted on 02/16/2015 1:27:11 PM PST by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..).)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

In Hebrew, Greek, and in Arabic, I think, there are different words for “book” and “scroll”. I presume that “book” here refers to something more general than leaves of paper bound together on one edge.


10 posted on 02/16/2015 1:32:00 PM PST by rightwingcrazy
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To: CaptainPhilFan

Don’t worry about it, they’re going to try to
kill you in any event.


11 posted on 02/16/2015 1:32:53 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

You are a bit confused. The Quran was not written down until the late seventh century AD. Muslims date their calendar from 622 AD, the year Muhammad escaped Mecca (the locals were about to kill him .. now there’s an unfortunate missed opportunity) and was able to regroup in Medina and form his followers into a military force the retook Mecca and then much of the Arabian Peninsula. The suras (chapters) in the Quran which refer to Jews and Christians as “Peoples of the Book”, in contrast to most Arabs of that time who were pagans, were probably from his early ravings when he thought there was a chance he’d be accepted by either or both as a legitimate prophet. Neither was fooled and the tone changed. Cherry picking suras to portray the religion as peaceful is quite the hobby among today’s politically correct.


13 posted on 02/16/2015 2:00:39 PM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

from wiki it sounds like the reference includes muslims who don’t live or practice their religion.

There are many statements in the Qur’an telling that People of The Book are people who have the book of Allah but do not practice. Some examples are below:

If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.[12]

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.[13]

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account.[14]


14 posted on 02/16/2015 2:26:00 PM PST by kvanbrunt2 (civil law: commanding what is right and prohibiting what is wrong Blackstone Commentaries I p44)
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To: CaptainPhilFan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookbinding

“Western books from the fifth century onwards were bound between hard covers, with pages made from parchment folded and sewn on to strong cords or ligaments that were attached to wooden boards and covered with leather. Since early books were exclusively handwritten on handmade materials, sizes and styles varied considerably, and there was no standard of uniformity. Early and medieval codices were bound with flat spines, and it was not until the fifteenth century that books began to have the rounded spines associated with hardcovers today.[7] Because the vellum of early books would react to humidity by swelling, causing the book to take on a characteristic wedge shape, the wooden covers of medieval books were often secured with straps or clasps. These straps, along with metal bosses on the book’s covers to keep it raised off the surface that it rests on, are collectively known as furniture.”


17 posted on 02/16/2015 4:12:08 PM PST by Hugin ("Do yourself a favor--first thing, get a firearm!",)
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To: CaptainPhilFan
Re: The quran calling Christians and Jews "People of The Book": The quran was put together before 700 BC. The first Bible was printed in 1450, the Torah 1482. Before that there were papyrus, scrolls, writings - but no "Book".

Your error is in your understanding of what a "book" is, and supposing to be the "People of The Book" it must mean a book in the modern sense, versus a group of bound writings, which here are of Divine revelation = Scriptures.

I do not know what the word for "book" is on Aramaic, but in Hebrew when God told Moses

And the Lord said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven, (Exodus 17:14)

And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, (Deuteronomy 31:24)

then the word is sêpher / siphrâh, which basically means a document. The Bible is actually a book of books, but to be the people of the book need only mean a people identified with certain holy writings, and could have applied to the Jews from the giving of the Law and onward, in the light of their identification with it:

And the king went up into the house of the Lord, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant that was found in the house of the Lord. (2 Chronicles 34:30)

And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law. (Nehemiah 8:3)

For the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)

18 posted on 02/17/2015 3:24:55 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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