KJV lacks a meaning of Unforgivable Sin, Disbelief that God can forgive anything

Bible Hub Genesis 4:13 ^ | 05-13-01 | CharlesOconnell

[PeterPrinciple]

Did Cain repent

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You are the first commenter to link repentance and forgiveness of sin. Repentance is not a popular topic.

Can you have forgiveness of sin without repentance?

Can you have repentance and no forgiveness of sin?

My conclusion is that for the transaction to be complete you need both. Sometimes forgiveness comes before the repentance. There are many incomplete transactions.

[PeterPrinciple]

Genesis 4:13 King James Bible (KJV) - And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Brenton Septuagint Translation - And Cain said to the Lord God, My crime is too great for me to be forgiven.

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Too many times, we in our limited minds, assume it is one or the other. Both are worthy of reflection.

[MAAG]

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”(John 6:28-29)

“For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40)

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”(John 10:28-30)

If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?

You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.(1 Cor. 6:19-20)

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.(2 Cor. 1:21-22)

All of this happened at our first moment of belief, before we could do anything to either earn or lose our position. The man on the cross beside Jesus is the prototype for this transaction.

Having done something bad enough to get himself executed, he was promised a place in Paradise solely because he believed in his heart that Jesus was the Lord of a coming Kingdom.

Nothing could be clearer, so in study of scripture we use clear verses to help clarify seemingly complicated ones.

I also believe that the letter to Hebrews was from Paul,(possibly transcribed by Luke) he could not sign or claim it because most Jewish believers were afraid of "Saul".

[Mr Rogers]

“Having done something bad enough to get himself executed, he was promised a place in Paradise solely because he believed in his heart that Jesus was the Lord of a coming Kingdom.”

Obviously. And equally obvious, he then died before changing his mind was an option. Totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I have not said ANYTHING suggesting I believe in “earning salvation”.

[Elsie]

What I find interesting is that BOTH trees are in the middle of the garden.

Oh?

I find no location given for the ToL.

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Genesis 3:21-24 niv

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

[MHGinTN]

What of David?

[Elsie]

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

John restates this in his 2^nd letter...

4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

[HarleyD]

Genesis 4:13 King James Bible (KJV) - And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Brenton Septuagint Translation - And Cain said to the Lord God, My crime is too great for me to be forgiven.

I would suggest the Brenton Septuagint Translation is a poor translation of the text. Please note the actual Hebrew translation And said Cain to Yahweh, "My punishment is greater than I can bear." This is far different from Brenton's translation as it has nothing to do with Cain asking or seeking forgiveness. One can see that Cain was only selfishly interested in his punishment-not of forgiveness.

This shows the folly of not carefully studying the text.

[PeterPrinciple]

Oh?

I find no location given for the ToL.

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Gen 2:9 The LORD God made all sorts of trees grow up from the ground—trees that were beautiful and that produced delicious fruit. In the middle of the garden He placed the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

[PeterPrinciple]

Nothing could be clearer, so in study of scripture we use clear verses to help clarify seemingly complicated ones.

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I Never Knew You
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who calls out to Me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of My Father in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 On judgment day many will say to Me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in Your name and cast out demons in Your name and performed many miracles in Your name.’
Mat 7:23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who break God’s laws.’

But then the above plus others does muddy the water for many. There is real security of salvation and false security of salvation.

Let me repeat that. There is real security of salvation and false security of salvation.

It many come down the the following question:

DID YOU CHOSE GOD OR DID GOD CHOOSE YOU?

If you chose God, then you also have the power to unchoose God. IF God chose you, that is pretty much a lock.

So that leaves us to ponder................Does one have real security of salvation or false? How does one know??

(we can fool ourselves pretty quickly. “Go away I never knew you” has to be the scariest verse in the Bible.

[PeterPrinciple]

a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

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Read that slowly and let lips move. Now read it again.

every word is worth of thought but ,

“guard the way TO the tree of life” Note that word TO. A military gate is lifted to let authorized persons in. We in our human mind tend to think the Tree of Life was out of the picture, but it never went away.

The Tree of life is mentioned in 3 books: Genesis, another book, and Revelation. I will let the reader do their own research.

[MAAG]

Only those who actually do the will of My Father in heaven will enter.

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Lets see what Paul says: Romans 8

30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,

“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to share what I have learned.

Are issues may be in that all that Jesus taught was under the Law, for the offer of the kingdom had to be true in case He was accepted. After the cross the New came.

Or else how could Jesus tell his disciples that the would do greater miracles? Because they would be under Grace.

I have some study on Law or Grace in the NT, that is being put together, will soon post, but right now I got to run.

Have a blessed Day.

[Elsie]

How did I miss that??

LOL!

[Elsie]

I see now - I started my search too late; in chapter 3.

[Elsie]

I will let the reader do their own research.

See what happened when I did MY own!

Thanks for helping me out; for I'd thought for DECADES that 'in the middle of the garden' was something that Eve had come up with on her own.

[Seven_0]

So theologians, why are they in the center of the garden, side by side?

From the beginning God intended for the man to know good and evil. He designed a venue where man could learn without eternal punishment. Birth death and resurrection. (Genesis 1:1-3)

Eph 5:31-32 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Try to fit a few details in. Adam and Eve are typical of Christ and the Church. Thus Adam was not deceived. The natural man desired to know good and evil but it is also possible that Adam chose to die with Eve rather than live without her. Do we see Christ here?

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and

Here, Eve gives us a clue of her intentions, a tree to be desired. The desire to sin is not good and God will deal with it.

Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

God knew the condition of their heart even though they were blind and naked at this point.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

After they ate the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and God clothed them probably with skins of animals that Adam had named. A short list of suspects to the question "who told thee that thou wast naked?" God could not instruct Adam and Eve to eat of the "tree of life" because it would have been a law which would have given life. Man must realize his need for the "tree of life"

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

[PeterPrinciple]

RC says assurance of faith is false and discount the idea of real assurance of faith.

Many P put too much emphasis on assurance of faith and will not admit there is false assurance.

Can we agree on the above?

Salvation is God’s mystery.

[MAAG]

RC says assurance of faith is false and discount the idea of real assurance of faith. Many P put too much emphasis on assurance of faith and will not admit there is false assurance. Can we agree on the above?

Never, He(Jesus) is faithful, I am a man and no matter how hard I try can not remain faithful.(Neither can you)

The death of Jesus was to have been Satan’s ultimate victory, the removal of the last obstacle to man’s complete and eternal separation from God. It would have also fulfilled Satan’s stated ambition to “become like the Most High” as expressed in Isaiah 14:13-14. All mankind would now owe their allegiance to him. Satan had earlier offered all the kingdoms of the Earth to Jesus in return for His worship, but Jesus had refused. Now He would get nothing.

But at the cross something unexpected happened. As Satan stood there at the foot of the cross celebrating with his minions, a long list appeared over the Lord’s head and was nailed to the cross with Him. It was a list of all our sins. His death was paying for all the sins of mankind, allowing anyone who so desired to be granted a full pardon and be reunited with God. Immediately the ultimate victory became a total defeat. (Colossians 2:13-15)

But the full extent of the defeat wouldn’t be known until 20 years later when Paul informed us that a whole new race of human had been created that day. (Ephes. 2:15-16) This race was called the Church and it would be elevated above all creation, and even above the the angels, to be seated at the very side of the Lord, as righteous as He is (2 Cor. 5:21). The church would dwell forever in His Presence, having authority with Him not only over Earth but all the Universe. In short, the Church would be given everything Satan aspired to, while Satan would get the eternal punishment that the Church deserved.

No other group in the history of mankind would be so honored, not the Old Testament believers who came before, and not the tribulation believers who came after. And it would happen on a day that no one could predict, so that Satan would never know in advance when his final humiliation would come. That’s one of the reasons he’s so angry when he’s cast down to Earth at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. (Rev. 12:12)

It was an unbelievable manifestation of God’s love. If Satan had known before hand what was coming he would have done everything in his power to prevent the crucifixion. (1 Cor 2:7-10) For that reason alone, it could not be revealed on Earth until it was too late for Satan to do anything about it.

But there was more. Jesus came to offer a Kingdom to Israel, and His focus was to convince them to take it. Because of that He hardly spoke of the Church at all. Notice that in the Olivet Discourse, His definitive teaching on the end times, He didn’t mention the Church even once.

[DouglasKC]

I believe that the unforgivable sin is the rejection of God's spirit from our lives after we've received it:

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 
Heb 6:5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 
Heb 6:6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 

[MAAG]

And how do we know we belong to “The Righteous”? Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5:17,21)

How can this be? God, Who knows the end from the beginning, has looked forward in time to the day when you stand before Him and are finally made perfect, totally conformed to the image and likeness of His Son. As part of the blessing you received by asking Jesus into your heart, He chose from that day on to see you only as you’ll be then, not as you are now.

And if you sin between now and then? If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9) Immediately upon confession, we’re forgiven, the sin is forgotten and we’re pure once again, as righteous as He is. The law of double jeopardy protects us from accusation.

Here’s how it works. In Roman times, when someone was convicted of a crime, the law he had broken and its penalty were written on a parchment and nailed to his prison cell door. When his sentence was served, the jailer wrote the Greek word “Tetelestai” across the parchment, signifying that he had paid his debt to society in full, and gave it to him. If he was ever accused of that crime again, he could produce the parchment showing the penalty had been paid, and the charges were dropped. Double jeopardy was forbidden.

He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (Colossians 2:14-15)

The penalty for your sins is death. When Jesus went to the cross, the spirit world saw a parchment with all the sins of your life written upon it nailed it to the cross with Him. His last word before dying was “Tetelestai.” In John 19:30 It’s translated “It is finished.” But legally it means, “Paid in full.” He was saying that His death paid in full the penalty for all your sins. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1) You needn’t fear confessing any sin, because the parchment listing all the sins of your life has been marked Tetelestai, paid in full. You’re as righteous as God is. Double jeopardy is forbidden.