GETTING SCHIZOPHRENICS TO TAKE THEIR MEDS?

onedoug ^ | 13 FEB 2004 | onedoug

[onedoug]

Does anyone have ideas or suggestions about how to get a possibly bipolar disordered woman to take her medication?

Her brother has evidently left her, and her family lives in Florida.

She has been leaving many of her most valuable items on our porch for about a month now, including car keys and current credit cards

Asking her if she's taken her medicine elicits ambiguous answers, and it's readilly apparent that she's not..

My wife and I are afraid someone is going to take advantage of her, as she communicates in and out like a child.

[onedoug]

I'm going to see if I can get her to mention her doctors

[Lou L]

You say she's "possibly" bipolar, but that she takes meds? Has she been diagnosed as bipolar?

[Williams]

Schizophrenia and bi-polar are different illnesses. That doesn't help you to get her to take her meds. Also, I'm not sure there is a med that definitely controls such disorders. There certainly is no cure. I know that with both illnesses patients often don't take their medications for variety of reasons.

[Ragirl]

I have a family member with the same type of condition. Schizophrenics have manic like behaviors and can be bipolar to, as messed up as that sounds. I don't know what the laws are in your state, but here where I live, the only way one can get a person committed is if they are a danger to themself or to others. I actually called probate court, and they told me one has to be homicidal or suicidal to be forcibly committed/medicated. It's not against the law to be insane. Schizophrenics can sure be a trip! Good luck.

[hershey]

This is an enormous problem with people who need to take meds every month, week, or day. They don't like the side effects, so stop taking the meds. Here are two examples, people I knew or know: A woman who was dating a younger man...she had high blood pressure, but didn't like the way the meds made her feel. So she didn't take her pills...said they made her feel old. She was taken to the hospital from work one day, when she suffered a mini stroke. She recovered. Again stopped taking her pills. This time she had a massive stroke at home and died. The second woman of my acquaintance is still alive, but refuses to take her anxiety meds. She's on ulcer medication, too...complete obsessive, compulsive person...if she hires anyone to do a job, it's never, ever right. So the phone calls from work start, complaining over and over until the worker comes back not once, but many times. She's nuts. She has an ulcer because of stress, yet won't take the meds to help her stress. I've heard that schizophrenics are even worse about medication...because it enervates them and makes them sleepy. They feel drugged to the gills. But hey, that's better than hearing voices, I would imagine.

[passionfruit]

Is this lady elderly? sounds more like the beginnings of dementia, or Alzheimer's. I would do several things. I would contact your local Senior advocacy group, and ask if they could arrange for her to be seen by a doctor. I had a neighbor acting about the same, and she was getting painfully thin, because she was forgetting to eat. I called meals on wheels and they came by every day with good food and stayed with her while she ate it.

In the absence of that, I would have the lady of your house, not you tell her that her forgetfulness is causing you both great concern, and that you want her to go to the doctor, and the wife needs to go with her, and explain to her what is happening to her.

I think for her own safety, I would also call the local police and explain that this forgetful lady is leaving her keys and credit cards on her front porch, and ask them to check on her daily. This will help to establish a pattern that will then be documented in the event that she needs a conservator ship.

This doesn't sound like bi polar disorder to me.

[blackdog]

Sounds like she needs to be in a lightly supervised group home if her family has abandoned her. They have a resident in them that will assist them in their personal affairs and meds, appointments, food shopping, and such.

Be careful about this woman pushing her property and credit at you. Should a family member suddenly want to take interest in her, they'll accuse you of things you don't need to hear.

Keep in touch with her and your concern and kindness will not go unappreciated.

[Rudder]

As a mental health professional let me offer the following: You must be able to demonstrate she is either a danger to herself or to others or is unable to handle her affairs. If so, you should go to the court that has jurisdiction (probate court in my county) and file an order of probate alleging the above. There will be some sort of hearing (perhaps in private with just the judge and you. If you prevail, an order will be issued to the sherrif to pick her up for mental health evaluation--they will take it from there.

[onedoug]

No. She's about 32-35. My daughter went to school with her brother, who had evidently struggled with her before, but now seems to have flown the coop from her.

The police idea would be a good one if we didn't have LAPD here, who don't seem to have the time for much of anything if it doesn't involve gunplay.

As I started to say, I think I'm going to try to get her to mention her doctor(s) so that I might communicate my concerns to them. Or, to try and get her to show me her medicine bottle(s).

Her family evidently still subsidizes her. Her hygiene and clothes appear well maintained.

My mother-in-law had a phone conversation with her mother in Florida, but has since misplaced the number.

Thanks for the input. I knew I could count on Freepers.

[onedoug]

She hasn't seemed dangerous to anyone or herself, yet. I really think if I can get her to start her medication again, she'll be fine.

Thank you so much for caring, too.

[onedoug]

ping

[onedoug]

You're second papragraph there, is also a good idea.

Thanks again.

[GovernmentShrinker]

People who can't think more clearly than this woman can't remember to take medication regularly -- they need someone to remember for them. Heck, even normal people often forget to take medications. If schizophrenia is what this woman has, it is urgently important that she be medicated regularly. Schizophrenia is a progressive disease, and there is strong evidence that early and continuous medication slows the progress.

My half sister is schizophrenic, has never been medicated, and refuses any medication or treatment. She also fails to meet the "imminent danger to herself or others" test, despite the fact that she lives in a makeshift tent and all her front teeth have been knocked out in fights. You'll be doing your neighbor a big favor if you make an aggressive push for intervention.

My advice is to personally deliver her belongings to the police station each time she leaves them on your property. This will 1) force them to make contact with her; and 2) protect you from accusations she might make that you are stealing the items. Remember, schizophrenics are often paranoid, and imagine people are doing them harm. My sister won't pick up mail from my father at the post office anymore, because "the metal detectors at the door set off the things 'they' implanted in my head". That sort of story is obviously nuts, but if your neighbor starts claiming that you stole her car keys and credit cards, this starts to get into the realm of believability, when those items are found on your property.

[onedoug]

I'd sure consider that. But the LAPD is honestly largely worthless for this sort of thing. I can almost bet that they'd declare they can't incur the liability. They are not proactive in any way, shape or form.

My mother-in-law also lives on our street. I think if she, my wife and I can let X know that we care, there may a chance we can get her back to taking her medicine. I've thought of writing her brief daily reminder notes.

But if something doesn't work soon, we'll have to start thinking of something more aggressive. I'd feel awful if something bad happened to her that we might have been able to prevent.

Thanks so much for your concern.

PRAYER WOULDN'T HURT EITHER.

I'll try to keep you updated.

[foolscap]

This is a very common problem. In my personal belief it comes from the fact that persons with mental illness do not want to accept the fact they have a problem. There is a lot societal shame around this issue so it is understandable why they feel the way they do. Denial is a wonderful thing especial when you live in a culture that backs it up. You might be able to talk her into it but until she comes to terms to the fact she has a problem and she is responsible for taking care of it I doubt you will have little luck. Until she can look at her mental illness as being nothing more than having a disease like hypertension or diabetes she will continue to behave as if this a problem she can take care of herself just through force of will. I have been through this a lot with several people. The coming to terms with having a mental problem is three quarters of what it takes to heal.

[LadyDoc]

Haldol and prolixin come in injection forms.

They are used for people unreliable in taking medications, usually one shot a week.

However, they both cause stiffness, (known as "extrapyramidal" or "parkinsonian" )side effects. these side effects, along with an internal restless feeling (known as akithesia) is one reason people don't take medications.

The newer anti psychotics don't have these side effects, and are better tolorated.

Bipolar people often need a more delicate mixture than schizophrenics...lithium, anti convulsants, and anti depressants or a mixture of these...they can be quite fragile in their ups and downs. But often they go into remission and can be controlled with just lithium..or even stop their pills.

One way to tell which type it is: do they seem strange, and not quite fit in? These "negative" personality traits are simple schizophrenia. Do they have wierd ideas, like George Bush went into Iraq for oil money, or the people from mars are listening to their thoughts? They are paranoid schizophrenics. Do they hear voices? this is psychosis. Are they severely depressed and only hear voices when the depression hits? That is psychotic depression, or maybe bipolar (this is like that Texas lady who killed her kids: severe post partum depression that slid into psychosis).

As for bipolar, my professor said if they wear three rings and are writing a book, they are probably bipolar...

Find a local support group to help you, and a good local psychiatrist...

[DameAutour]

I'm bipolar and would not take medication for years, for a variety of reasons. The side effects can be horrible (and seem worse than the illness). Also, it is hard to know something is wrong with you if it is your mind that is the problem.

It is admirable that you are kind enough to want to help your neighbor. I understand the reluctance to getting the police involved. Getting her to mention her doctors is one idea.

You can also call the Department of Mental Health Hotline and explain the situation. They are always open and have access to many different organizations and services that might be able to help her. The number for LA county is 1-800-854-7771.

[onedoug]

Thank you all so much for your input.

My wife and I finally talked to her brother the other night.

'Turns out he works a lot, and so is often away from his apartment, which adjoins hers.

He says she's been diagnosed schizophrenic, her real symptoms manifesting about 4 years ago, shortly after being married at 32.

Her husband cashed her out very generously, then bailed on her about a year ago.

She's since been picked up by paramedics and hospitalized at least twice, after which, though she seemed better, she quickly regressed.

She's now evidently very close to bottoming out financially, and her brother's exhausted himself to the point where he claims he can't take care of her.

Her mother's coming from Florida at the end of the month, but X DECLARES that she won't go there with her.

Last night she broke a glass object which I think she may have been trying to leave on our porch (See openning).

When I approached her she claimed she was out of money and asked me for $20.00, even though I don't think she's clearly recogninized me from one meeting to another.

She was really whacked out when we talked to her brother, indicating drug use, in addition to not taking her medication.

She was more coherent last night though, so I told her I'd give her $20.00 if she brought me her medicine and let me watch her take it.

She proceeded to lecture me on "How could it be logical for me to get my medicine when I don't have busfare to get to the doctor to get it?"

So, I think this is our course.

Her parents own the four-plex around the corner where she and her brother live, so she has a place to stay. (God knows though, how she hasn't yet lost her keys.)

My wife and I will give her food if she needs it. Plus, I'm going to offer her $100.00/week if she'll show me her medication and let me watch her take it.

Short of her eventual final commitment or worse end, that seems to be about the best we can do for her, as it certainly seems no one's going to give her a better deal.

'Getting tired, too. I'll try to let you know what follows.

Thank you, all, again.

[blackdog]

Be very careful about paying anyone $100 to do anything. I could envision you paying her $100 to take rat poison. You have no idea what may be in her "meds" bottles do you? Since you have no control over their custody, I'd steer clear o'dat one.

You are a trusting and honest soul. You have no idea of the strange things people who have mental and emotional problems are capable of doing. I have seen stuff that would make your head spin. The lies, half truth's, game playing, manipulation, and self destructive behaviors go beyond your wildest immagination.

If you do anything with her meds bottles, it would be to get the name of the doctor, the phone number of the pharmacy and call them both. The woman is most likely a danger to herself at best.

[GovernmentShrinker]

My wife and I will give her food if she needs it. Plus, I'm going to offer her $100.00/week if she'll show me her medication and let me watch her take it. Short of her eventual final commitment or worse end, that seems to be about the best we can do for her, as it certainly seems no one's going to give her a better deal.

Bless you for your efforts. If my half-sister had bumped into people like you and your wife 20 years ago, things might have turned out very differently.

If you talk to her family again, tell them it's very important to get her to allow her diagnosis to be released to the federal government, for Social Security Disability purposes. My half-sister was diagnosed schizophrenic by a court-appointed doctor in Texas. But he's not allowed to release her records to the feds, so she can't can't get SS disability payments or Medicaid, even though she's obviously eligible. Since she doesn't believe there's anything wrong with her, she won't authorize the doctor (who she refuses to see again anyway) to tell the feds there is. It's a nasty little Catch-22.