Liberal looking to understand

FreeRepublic ^ | 1996 | webmaster@freerepublic.com

[wolfpat]

Why does this kid keep getting zotted? Maybe I'm wrong, but I see this as a genuine opportunity to break through the Barbara Streisand this kid has been force fed all his life. I don't think he's ever been exposed to anything other than MSM misinformation. Personally, I find that explaining my positions to other people helps me to more clearly define, and to solidify, these positions. If we can make him see truth, he can explain it to others.
We're also having some nice side discussions.

[Ragnorak]

Ragnorak: point well take, but simply there is not enough private orgs that are helping and do think that the gov has a certain responsibility to help/support its people......does what you say apply during the great depression????? Do you realize we are going through a smaller one now and some innocent people are being hurt by it.

This applies especially during the Great Depression. The Depression started with the stock market crash in 1929. FDR didn't take office until 1933. How did people get by during the years until his 100 days of alphabet soup programs? How did the poor survive for the century and a quarter before FDR took office?

At the end of the day what gets you out of any economic slump is hard working, bright individuals with entrepreneurial drive. Every single company that employs anyone was started by somebody. If the government takes too much of the fruit of an individual's labor, you find that people cease to be entrepreneurial. Are you willing to risk everything you own and spend 100+ hours a week for years of your life to start a company so that the government can take most of your profits?

What criteria do you use to say there are not enough private organizations? The percentage of poor people in this country has remained the same for the entire 70+ years of government social programs. Keep in mind, private organizations compete for the same pool of money that everyone else does. Taxes shrink the pool of money available for private orgs.

Ronald Reagan said it better than I can in 1964. He probably explained it better than any of us here will. Listen for yourself:

www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/reaganatimeforchoosing.htm

[SketchMD]

Not to be a contrarian but where in the Constitution is there anything about the right to life (of any sort) or the right of a man to bear the fruits of his labors?

If we're going to defend the Constitution, at leas tknow what's in it....

[Ragnorak]

The short answer on life is in the Fifth Ammendment "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

More to the point, is that we have a government that identifies the individual as the paramount unit of society. Read through the individual State Constitutions and you find the fruits of labor more explicitly defined.

Mass
Article I. All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

Penn
Inherent Rights of Mankind
Section 1. All men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness.

Virginia
Section 1. Equality and rights of men.

That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Also, Consider this Preamble to the Mass. Constitution:

The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquillity their natural rights, and the blessings of life: and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness.

The body politic is formed by a voluntary association of individuals: it is a social compact, by which the whole people covenants with each citizen, and each citizen with the whole people, that all shall be governed by certain laws for the common good. It is the duty of the people, therefore, in framing a constitution of government, to provide for an equitable mode of making laws, as well as for an impartial interpretation, and a faithful execution of them; that every man may, at all times, find his security in them.

We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

[wolfpat]

Let us not forget the basic principle that the Constitution is not a list of rights, although ours has one. Any constitution is a tech manual, operating instructions for a government. Anything not specifically listed as a function of government isn't a legitimate function. As conservatives, we know that much of what our government is doing now, and almost all of what liberals want to do, is plainly unconstitutional.

[jwalsh07]

Not to be a contrarian but where in the Constitution is there anything about the right to life (of any sort) or the right of a man to bear the fruits of his labors?

You may be a contrarian but you are definitely constitutionally illiterate.

If we're going to defend the Constitution, at leas tknow what's in it....

Truer words were never spoken pal.

[SketchMD]

You may be a contrarian but you are definitely constitutionally illiterate.

Please enlighten me, oh great one

[SketchMD]

Ah nevermind. Serves me right for not looking at previous replies.

[jwalsh07]

LOL, that's OK, I admire the ability to see humor in a given situation.