Posted on 03/21/2005 2:28:06 AM PST by CarrotAndStick
" Vinegar, carrots, parsley, and garlic every day works for me."
Garlic , fresh ginger , miso soup , maitake mushrooms , soybeans ...daily ...works for me ...eat little to no junk food ...not a vegetarian ...I enjoy some pork , chicken and lots of fish ...Almost no beef , though ...
Or create nightmares, depending on the variety!
--Boot Hill
The Indian crowd you see in America is not a sample size for India's general populace. The demographics of the country are far too complex to study/draw conclusions from a few immigrants whom you meet in America.
I have Hindu friends whose beef-eating habits go back several generations through the family line, probably all through thousands of years. In fact, several of them were extreme conservatives, who attributed eating beef strictly according to the Vedas that I mentioned earlier. You can run a Google® search on this fact.
I eat whatever my wife puts on the table and sometimes it isnt that good, She is a lousy cook. But I eat it and shut up about the taste. Sometimes we go out for some Chinese to give my palate a break. I even went to Outback once. Once was enough my wifes cooking is better. If I want tough steak and a greasy onion I can go to food Lion and get one cheaper. talk about junk food.
If you really want to eat good in washington DC , go to Blackies House Beef on M st. Take your pocketbook you will need it.
CarrotAndStick wrote: "...About a twentieth of Hindus object to consuming beef, though. And this practice started in the 1500s, when India was under Muslim rule..."
Please cite a valid and linked source for both of your statements quoted above.
Gladly.
http://www.swaminomics.org/articles/20030824_serving_beef_ayodhya.htm
Serving beef at Ayodhya
The Times of India, August 24, 2003
Although the BJP and Congress Party both seem keen on banning cow slaughter throughout India, it looks as though dissent from other parties has blocked the move for the time being. Some critics protest that cow worship is a strictly Hindu idea that must not be imposed on others in a secular state. I agree.
But I go further. I hold that cow slaughter and beef eating are proven Hindu traditions of old. This has been recorded by any number of scholars of the Vedas and epics. Let me give as an example Nirad Chaudhuri's passages from The Continent of Circe.
Vedic literature shows great love for and pride in cattle, as is to be expected of a pastoral people. Love of cows in the Vedas goes with "every possible economic use of cattle, including, of course, their slaughter for food". The Vedic spirit continues into the age when epics like the Ramayana and Mahabharata were written.
Chaudhuri notes that a debate had already begun between those who opposed and those who defended cow slaughter. The two ideas co-existed, very much like the debate today about vegetarianism. The Mahabharata mentions, "without thinking it necessary to add any excuse, that a very hospitable king used to have 20,100 cattle slaughtered every day for his guests." On the other hand, another story tells of a king who has slaughtered a cow to entertain a sage, an act that is criticised as sinful by another sage.
Such differences of view are a key characteristic of Hinduism. It has never been a rigid, Semitic-style religion with a chief pre-late laying down one single interpretation of holy texts. From ancient times some Hindus opposed cow slaughter, but many others regarded it as not merely permissible but obligatory to show honour to guests.
By the time the Dharma Shastras were penned, beef consumption had "ceased or virtually ceased". Nevertheless, the play Uttara-Rama-Charitra, one of the most celebrated versions of the Ramayana written by Bhavabhuti in the 8th century AD, has the following dialogue between two hermit boys at Ayodhya, Saudahataki and Dandayana.
S: What is the name of the guest who has arrived today with a big train of women?
D: Stop joking. It is no less a person than the revered Vasishta himself.
S: Is it Vasishta, eh?
D: Who else?
S: I thought it was a tiger or a wolf. For, as soon as he came, he crunched up our poor tawny heifer.
D: It is written that meat should be given along with curds and honey. So every host offers a heifer, a big bull, or a goat to a learned Brahmin who comes as a guest. This is laid down in sacred law.
Today, with the Hindutva bri-gade in full cry, such a dialogue in a modern play would probably cause a riot and be banned.
Yet, this was uncontroversial in its time. Clearly, the notion that the cow is sacred is merely a sectional Hindu view. It is by no means traditional Hinduism or essential Hinduism. If anything, it is a recent reformist Hinduism. I have no objection to reformers, but I object vociferously when they pretend to speak for all Hindus, or for essential Hinduism.
Some Vishwa Hindu Parishad types say that the cow gives milk which is essential for rearing all of us, so the cow is our mother, and hence deserves to be protected from slaughter. Chaudhuri remarks caustically that the "relationship is expressed not in terms of economics or animal husbandry... but as a matter of ethics, as if one was speaking of a man's relationship with his wet nurse."
On this supposition, the buffalo is an even greater mother of Hindus than the cow, as buffaloes in north India provide more milk than cows. But nobody worships the poor buffalo. Indeed, the buffalo is ceremonially sacrificed as part of Hindu worship in parts of eastern India.
In Vedic times, neither untouchables nor tribals were regarded as Hindus. Even when the first census was enumerated in the 19th century, dalits and tribals were not counted as Hindus.
But such is the power of modern upper caste Hindu imperialism that it now claims as its own these two groups whom it cruelly reviled and oppressed through the ages. Dalits and tribals have always eaten beef.
Yet, the VHP brigade (and its camp-followers in the Congress) claim unhesitatingly that Hindus do not eat beef. A ban on cow slaughter would be an imposition on hundreds of millions of dalits and tribals, no less than on non-Hindus.
I have long opposed a ban on cow slaughter as a secular liberal. But in the light of Bhavabhuti's narrative, I also oppose the ban as a beef-eating Hindu. I am following in the footsteps of Vasishta, no less.
http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-puniyani150803.htm
Beef Eating: Strangulating History
By Ram Puniyani
The Hindu
15 August, 2003
While one must respect the sentiments of those who worship cow and regard her as their mother, to take offence to the objective study of history just because the facts don't suit their political calculations is yet another sign of a society where liberal space is being strangulated by the practitioners of communal politics. Prof. D. N. Jha, a historian from Delhi University, had been experiencing the nightmares of `threats to life' from anonymous callers who were trying to prevail upon him not to go ahead with the publication of his well researched work, Holy Cow: Beef in Indian Dietary Traditions.
As per the reports it is a work of serious scholarship based on authentic sources in tune with methods of scientific research in history. The book demonstrates that contrary to the popular belief even today a large number of Indians, the indigenous people in particular and many other communities in general, consume beef unmindful of the dictates of the Hindutva forces.
It is too well known to recount that these Hindutva forces confer the status of mother to the cow. Currently 72 communities in Kerala - not all of them untouchables - prefer beef to the expensive mutton and the Hindutva forces are trying to prevail upon them to stop the same.
Not tenable
To begin with the historian breaks the myth that Muslim rulers introduced beef eating in India. Much before the advent of Islam in India beef had been associated with Indian dietary practices. Also it is not at all tenable to hold that dietary habits are a mark of community identity.
A survey of ancient Indian scriptures, especially the Vedas, shows that amongst the nomadic, pastoral Aryans who settled here, animal sacrifice was a dominant feature till the emergence of settled agriculture. Cattle were the major property during this phase and they offered the same to propitiate the gods. Wealth was equated with the ownership of the cattle.
Many gods such as Indra and Agni are described as having special preferences for different types of flesh - Indra had weakness for bull's meat and Agni for bull's and cow's. It is recorded that the Maruts and the Asvins were also offered cows. In the Vedas there is a mention of around 250 animals out of which at least 50 were supposed to be fit for sacrifice and consumption. In the Mahabharata there is a mention of a king named Rantideva who achieved great fame by distributing foodgrains and beef to Brahmins. Taittiriya Brahman categorically tells us: `Verily the cow is food' (atho annam via gauh) and Yajnavalkya's insistence on eating the tender (amsala) flesh of the cow is well known. Even later Brahminical texts provide the evidence for eating beef. Even Manusmriti did not prohibit the consumption of beef.
As a medicine
In therapeutic section of Charak Samhita (pages 86-87) the flesh of cow is prescribed as a medicine for various diseases. It is also prescribed for making soup. It is emphatically advised as a cure for irregular fever, consumption, and emaciation. The fat of the cow is recommended for debility and rheumatism.
With the rise of agricultural economy and the massive transformation occurring in society, changes were to be brought in in the practice of animal sacrifice also. At that time there were ritualistic practices like animal sacrifices, with which Brahmins were identified. Buddha attacked these practices. There were sacrifices, which involved 500 oxen, 500 male calves, 500 female calves and 500 sheep to be tied to the sacrificial pole for slaughter. Buddha pointed out that aswamedha, purusmedha, vajapeya sacrifices did not produce good results. According to a story in Digha Nikaya, when Buddha was touring Magadha, a Brahmin called Kutadanta was preparing for a sacrifice with 700 bulls, 700 goats and 700 rams. Buddha intervened and stopped him. His rejection of animal sacrifice and emphasis on non-injury to animals assumed a new significance in the context of new agriculture.
The threat from Buddhism
The emphasis on non-violence by Buddha was not blind or rigid. He did taste beef and it is well known that he died due to eating pork. Emperor Ashok after converting to Buddhism did not turn to vegetarianism. He only restricted the number of animals to be killed for the royal kitchen.
So where do matters change and how did the cow become a symbol of faith and reverence to the extent of assuming the status of `motherhood'? Over a period of time mainly after the emergence of Buddhism or rather as an accompaniment of the Brahminical attack on Buddhism, the practices started being looked on with different emphasis. The threat posed by Buddhism to the Brahminical value system was too severe. In response to low castes slipping away from the grip of Brahminism, the battle was taken up at all the levels. At philosophical level Sankara reasserted the supremacy of Brahminical values, at political level King Pushyamitra Shung ensured the physical attack on Buddhist monks, at the level of symbols King Shashank got the Bodhi tree (where Gautama the Buddha got Enlightenment) destroyed.
One of the appeals to the spread of Buddhism was the protection of cattle wealth, which was needed for the agricultural economy. In a way while Brahminism `succeeded' in banishing Buddhism from India, it had also to transform itself from the `animal sacrifice' state to the one which could be in tune with the times. It is here that this ideology took up the cow as a symbol of their ideological march. But unlike Buddha whose pronouncements were based on reason, the counteraction of Brahminical ideology took the form of a blind faith based on assertion. So while Buddha's non-violence was for the preservation of animal wealth for the social and compassionate reasons the counter was based purely on symbolism. So while the followers of Brahminical ideology accuse Buddha of `weakening' India due to his doctrine of non-violence, he was not a cow worshipper or vegetarian in the current Brahminical sense.
Despite the gradual rigidification of Brahminical `cow as mother' stance, large sections of low castes continued the practice of beef eating. The followers of Buddhism continued to eat flesh including beef. Since Brahminism is the dominant religious tradition, Babur, the first Mughal emperor, in his will to his son Humayun, in deference to these notions, advised him to respect the cow and avoid cow slaughter. With the construction of Hindutva ideology and politics, in response to the rising Indian national movement, the demand for ban on cow slaughter also came up. In post-Independence India RSS repeatedly raised this issue to build up a mass campaign but without any response to its call till the 1980s.
While one must respect the sentiments of those who worship cow and regard her as their mother, to take offence to the objective study of history just because the facts don't suit their political calculations is yet another sign of a society where liberal space is being strangulated by the practitioners of communal politics. We have seen enough such threats and offences in recent past - be it the opposition to films or the destruction of paintings, or the dictates of the communalists to the young not to celebrate Valentine's Day, etc., - and hope the democratic spirit of our Constitution holds the forte and any threat to the democratic freedom is opposed tooth and nail.
Prof. Ram Puniyani is a member of EKTA (Committee for Communal Amity), Mumbai . This article was first published on 14 August, 2001 in
The Hindu
Before you pounce on me let me make it clear that the contents of the above are the writings of Anklesaria Aiyar, a writer for the Times of India newspaper, and I have no dealings with him.
Please excuse me if the large post above bears a resemblance to pro-Aryan hate literature. But these views were published in mainstream Indian newspapers, and were not considered as such to cause the spread of hatred there. After all, early Hindus were an 'Aryan' society, and many aspects of it conflict with modern rationale. All facts may be verified independently via a simple Google® search.
You may freely use the links in my earlier post to show the Indians whom you are acquainted with, how wrong they were if they thought Hindus never ate beef.
And an add on, Anklesaria Aiyar is a Brahmin, a member of the priestly class in Hinduism. So the case is evermore stronger.
You referenced the Vedas in your statement that Hindus eat beef. Where is your citation from the Vedas?
Two long tomes with no apparent byline, copied from unreliable private websites, are not credible, nor are they valid sources.
Further, your stating that the tomes were written by someone whom you believe works at a newspaper and whose credibility you then admit is unverifiable is an absurd waste of time.
Did the members of DU tire of your nonsense?
Cutting heads off babies is fine, but once they're born we want to feed them mangoes, carrots, egg yolk, and papayas.
Have you been intoxicated lately?
If the Hindu friends of yours have an English copy of the Vedas or Upanishads, you may refer to it to find an equivalent of these verses:
In the Rig Veda (RV: VIII.43.11) Agni is described as "fed on ox and cow" suggesting that cattle were sacrificed and roasted in fire. Another hymn (RV: X.16.7) mentions the ritual enveloping of the corpse with cow flesh before applying the fire on it.
In the Brahmanas at 1.15 in the Aiteriya Brahmana, the kindling of Agni on the arrival of King Some is compared to the slaughter of a bull or a barren cow on the arrival of a human king or other dignitary.
Similarly, at II.1.11.1 in the Taiteriya Brahmana and XXXI.14.5 in the Panchavinsha Brahmana, the rishi Agastya is credited with the slaughter of a hundred bulls.
In verse III.1.2.21 in the Satapatha Brahmana, sage Yajnavalkaya asserts that even though the cow is the supporter of everyone, he would eat beef "if it is luscious." At IV.5-2.1 in the same Brahmana, it is said that a barren cow can be slaughtered in the Some sacrifice. Not only for religious purposes, but also for other purposes one could kill a cow and eat beef. Thus at II.4.2 of the same Brahmana, it is suggested that a fat bull or fat goat should be sacrificed in honour of an important guest.
Similarly, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishada (VI.4.18) advises a couple to take an evening meal of beef or veal pulao, if they desire to beget a son who is learned in the Vedas [Robert Trumbull, As I see India, London, 1957, p.241].
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articlelist/6274210.cms
Swaminathan S. Anklesaria Aiyar is Consulting Editor, Economic Times and writes regularly for the Economic Times and The Times of India.
If you doubt that this writer exists, then why don't you email timesofindia.com for a verification of the same article by him which I posted above, which apeared on the August 24, 2003 issue of the newspapers Times of India and Economic Times?
Here is the actual link from the Times of India. Hope you enjoy reading it.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/144132.cms
I apologise for being rude, but your comment seemed very out of context. If you were referring to infanticide in India, did you forget the thousands of foetus flushings(a.k.a abortion) that happens in the US daily?
You made a claim which you cannot back up. Please, do not waste any more of my time with your games.
Mmmmmmm! Pass the idli!
The urud dal is what gives it that special flavor.
What games? I have posted legitimate links to you. Now if you wish to convince me of the contrary, why don't you give me legitimate links to the contrary of what I claimed?
Please don't choose to run away now. If you can back up your contrary views, let me know of it. Or else, I take it that you can't.
Your latest post quoting something reported second, third or fourth hand in an economic paper also does not support your claims nor is it proof of your nonsense about Hinduism and the Vedas.
Dosas are better!
http://www.fatfree.com/recipes/breads-variety/dosa
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 18:43:23 EDT
From: srajag@paul.rutgers.edu
DOSAI
The basic recipe:
Soak 1 cup urad dal and 2 cups long grain rice overnight (to be soaked
separately). Grind urad dal till smooth. Grind rice till smooth.
While grinding, add water little by little, just enough to make a smooth
mixture.
Mix rice and dal together. Now add water to get a batter of pouring consistency
.With practice, you'll know how much water to add during grinding. It is better
to start with just enough water and add as you go along.
Add salt. Let the batter ferment.
It usually ferments overnight when left outside, on a pleasant day.
On a warm day, you might want to keep a close watch as it may bubble over.
When the batter has risen and has bubbles in it, you have dosai batter.
You do not have to wait till it doubles in size (please don't!!).
Batter is ready to use when it has bubbles in it and no longer smells
raw.
Heat pan. The test you can perform is sprinkle some water on the pan. If the
water evaporates immediately, pan is hot enough.
Take a round utensil, say a ladle, and put a ladleful of batter in
the centre of the pan. Immediately spread the batter in a circular motion
starting from the centre, to get a crepe.
Remember, you have to be pretty fast in spreading the batter, otherwise
it will start cooking instantly. The idea is to get thin crepes.
Drizzle veg or canola oil around the edges. If you use nonstick, you could
reduce (or eliminate) the oil. In that case your dosai will be drier, and
dosai may not come off of the pan easily.
Wait till the dosai browns and becomes a little crisp around the edges.
Carefully loosen the dosai from the pan and flip.
The ease with which dosai will come off the pan depends on how hot the pan is.
The hotter the pan, the easier it will be . However, there is a greater chance
of burning the dosai. So you might have to adjust the temperature while the
dosai is cooking.
It is also easier to dislodge the dosai if you use a really thin spatula
with a sharp edge in the front to do the flipping.
Let it brown a little on the other side.
Please stop posting your nonsense to me. You have made a statement you cannot support. I accept your retraction.
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