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Lord of the Rings - help needed (vanity)

Posted on 06/24/2005 7:13:06 AM PDT by hispanichoosier

I need help with LOTR. Two friends and I were discussing the books and movies last weekend. Friend 1 observed that the relationship between Frodo and Sam (in the movies) had homosexual overtones. Friend 2 retorted that the relationship is based on the master/servant relationship of old England and that Friend 1 was looking at it through American eyes, where rugged individualism is more prized. I--caught in the middle--had to admit that I thought that Sean Astin overplayed Sam at times but was great overall.

So, was Friend 1 right about the gay overtones, or was Friend 2's explanation correct? I'm rather at a loss over the whole debacle.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: aragorn; bilbo; fanboy; frodo; gandalf; lord; rings; sam; thisthreadisgay; tolkien
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To: Tax-chick

I read somewhere some time ago...now I wonder if I'm all wet--that a cleft chin is a kind of benign cleft palate--a problem in development that turns into an asset...at least as far as Cary Grant, Kirk Douglas and Robert Mitchem were concerned!


161 posted on 06/24/2005 12:51:49 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: RosieCotton

"Bingo. As if two guys can't hang out together - even love one another - without having sexual feelings for one another. There's more to love than sexuality, but seems like society would like us to forget that."


Kind of like Jonathan and David in the Old Testament!


162 posted on 06/24/2005 12:52:25 PM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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163 posted on 06/24/2005 12:52:26 PM PDT by evets (</sarcasm>)
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To: stands2reason

Well, he was just nineteen...when he started the filming. And he looks different without curls.


164 posted on 06/24/2005 12:53:26 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Tax-chick

He has a cute everything!

And he's a good singer.


165 posted on 06/24/2005 12:54:31 PM PDT by stands2reason (GINOBILI and HORRY are my MVPS!!!)
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To: JenB

Man, if I went to Scotland, I'd be turned on all day long....


166 posted on 06/24/2005 12:55:39 PM PDT by stands2reason (GINOBILI and HORRY are my MVPS!!!)
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To: Mamzelle

Don't forget Clark Gable! This is fascinating ... if a larger-than-expected percentage of what are considered the handsomest men ever had cleft chins, does that imply that the feature is linked to some genetic advantage that we're not aware of?


167 posted on 06/24/2005 12:57:03 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Working Class Zero with wall-to-wall carpeting.)
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To: stands2reason

I had no idea ... how nice to learn something new.


168 posted on 06/24/2005 12:57:38 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Working Class Zero with wall-to-wall carpeting.)
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To: diamond6

Or the brothers in Beau Geste.


169 posted on 06/24/2005 12:58:25 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Working Class Zero with wall-to-wall carpeting.)
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To: little jeremiah; ecurbh; All

I really enjoy all the special features interviews. There's nothing political in those. Their fellowship and love for the work was really genuine and it makes the interviews really fun... by the time you get to the close of filming on a project like that, it was emotional, and for me too.... these movies took up a lot of my time and thought for three years, brought me many new friends, and brought me my husband. Seeing them all saying goodbye is worth a tear or two :~D


170 posted on 06/24/2005 12:58:59 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog

I'm sorry, I don't think they're gay, I was just making fun.

(TTTT, still not sure about Elijah. And Dominic Monaghan wears mascara and fingernail polish..)


171 posted on 06/24/2005 1:04:19 PM PDT by stands2reason (GINOBILI and HORRY are my MVPS!!!)
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To: little jeremiah
re: I loved the books so much, I was surprised I liked the movies as much as I do. )))

I had to be dragged to FOTR. I couldn't stand the thought that it would be Spielberged and Disneyed. I knew nothing about the director, and had no faith at all that it would be done well. And I'm somebody who can enjoy a bad movie if the horses are pretty and the costumes good...

I really believe that it could not be possible to do a better job than PJ did. Just turning it into three movies was a superhuman risk. His gathering together of all those artists...The magic of walking though Bag End, though Rivendell (though Rivendell was much different than my own mental picture--I imagined it to be a cozier place), Edoras, and into the Hall at Minas Tirith...wonderful.

Now, PJ, make the Hobbit and Tales From the Silmarillion--and throw in the episode with Tom Bombadil (an artistic short film for DVD only).

172 posted on 06/24/2005 1:05:21 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Yup, I really missed Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, myself.


173 posted on 06/24/2005 1:07:28 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Tax-chick
re: cleft chins, does that imply that the feature is linked to some genetic advantage that we're not aware of?)))

Could well be. We could also check to see how large their hands are...

174 posted on 06/24/2005 1:11:14 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: stands2reason

Are we talking about my favorite Scot/hobbit????!! (pippin/billyboyd)


175 posted on 06/24/2005 1:42:59 PM PDT by Alkhin ("Oh! Oh!" cried my idiot crew. "It's a ghoul - we are lost!" ~ Jack Aubrey)
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To: stands2reason
I had reservations about his role as Merry, but in the end I think he turned out rather well...although you have no idea just how much I am straining to keep from highjacking this thread to rant about *my* favorite gripes about the film/characters!!

Hair and Co. have already read me whine ad nauseum on other threads, so I'll just say : I was very pleasantly surprised by the movie/actors and blown away with what they achieved...but Film Pippin is not the Book Pippin I see.

176 posted on 06/24/2005 1:45:27 PM PDT by Alkhin ("Oh! Oh!" cried my idiot crew. "It's a ghoul - we are lost!" ~ Jack Aubrey)
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To: stands2reason
Lij strikes me as coy and smart enough to let people keep guessing without revealing anything, and in the end, I really don't care. A young man with such talent should be viewed by his merits, of which he has PLENTy! LOL

My grudging respect of Monaghan, however, does not manage to wipe out the gut reaction I have towards him though, and that, I am afraid is just pure dislike. I couldnt' tell you why I dislike him, and I am not the world's best at character judgements, but every once in a while I see or meet someone whose vibes strike me all wrong. Usually, when that happens, its because I will ultimately find out soemthing about them that I dont like....and that does not necessarily mean it will be because he is gay. I really couldn't care less if he is. there is just something about him I do not like.

The fact that "he doth protest too much" about being gay could be part of that. i don't know.

177 posted on 06/24/2005 1:51:11 PM PDT by Alkhin ("Oh! Oh!" cried my idiot crew. "It's a ghoul - we are lost!" ~ Jack Aubrey)
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To: little jeremiah
I think Bombadil and Goldberry would be better served to show as characters if they did outtakes, or another film based on Tolkien's short stories...like Leaf by Niggle, or the actual Tom Bombadil story (didnt he write a short story/poem of Tom Bombadil and some of his other adventures?)

I am afraid I am one of those people who was quite relieved that Jackson left that part of LOTR out. that was the one part of the novels that I really disliked. bombadil annoyed the heck out of me. I almost stopped reading the books when I got to that part, and really didnt get interested again until the hobbits found themselves in the Barrow Downs. I wish PJ had put something like THAT in there...that would have been more in his line of work, as far as horror is concerned.

If you havent already, check out "Frighteners". it has Michael J Fox in it and is really quite good!

178 posted on 06/24/2005 1:55:24 PM PDT by Alkhin ("Oh! Oh!" cried my idiot crew. "It's a ghoul - we are lost!" ~ Jack Aubrey)
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To: HairOfTheDog

ROFL!!! I love it!!


179 posted on 06/24/2005 1:58:47 PM PDT by Alkhin ("Oh! Oh!" cried my idiot crew. "It's a ghoul - we are lost!" ~ Jack Aubrey)
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To: Alkhin

More like drooling about him .:-9


180 posted on 06/24/2005 2:06:02 PM PDT by stands2reason (GINOBILI and HORRY are my MVPS!!!)
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