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To: grey_whiskers
Thoughtful commentary, you've written. I'll bite.

One thing not factored into your equasion (among many) is that there exists no country in the US, like the US -- with its laws and flaws, it is still rooted in the finest example of what every country could become, but immediately will not and due to existing circumstances within their own countries.

Currently, Americans ARE waking up. More and more parents are demanding a better education for their children. More people are realizing that private savings is BETTER than "consuming". Although the Asian Tigers outrank the US in private savings -- those private savings are fueled, by government hand, into a centralized form of trade and commerce. We've already witnessed what happens (Russia). Dittos, India -- although India has more "leeway" in re private industry than does China.

These problems in those countries are not at all going to change overnight, or for a long time in the foreseeable future.

As crass and cold as it may appear, as more "seniors" begin hitting the wall, the "Soros-euthanazia" movement begins to grimly reap, IME. More people will choose a non-medicalized "life-sentence" to a life which involves living at the doctor's offices and being a human guinea pig.

In sum, there is an equilibrium point already built in between "left" and "right" in America, by my estimates.

As far as exports/imports -- China will take babysteps in opening their isolationist door to receiving imports from the US -- this will take time.

As the left continues to hammer, grovel, rhapsodize over "global warming" -- alongside many manufacturing plants being outsourced to countries with loose "environmental standards" -- more of the US workforce will be needed "abroad" to deal with many of the resulting effects of the leftist "agenda" built, erected, established, proselytized, activized in many other countries.

I watch the federal deficit; but not as a figure separate from all else going on. We are in a newer age. Given the cultural gaps which exist as a primary element in other countries, the US with its grace and support of "the invisible hand" will continue to lead.

I say, let the lefties continue to "bring it all down". In so doing, do they strengthen the economic US hand.

Yes, it's cold to say this.

However, for the millions of people in the US who do not comprehend "ECONOMICS" -- they will assuredly fall prey to a libbie huckster ranting about social justice, and therefore be as "useful idiots" and through THEIR own choice. Dittos, application to the civilians in other countries.

I am not as frightened nor as overly worried over the trade deficit, at moment, as some are. There are countries who really still do "owe" the US due "forgiven/blinked debt" -- are such debts ever really forgiven? No.

One problem I wonder about: Mid-east. Basically their only export IS oil. What happens when the cartel is no longer "ruling the roost"?

I believe we will see a fluorishing in the economies of most all countries. Countries which have only single or maybe even double-digit export items in trade will wish to do MORE trade with countries which have multiple exports.

Frankly, some countries will always be in deficit purely due resources, or lack thereof. I look at the countries, currently, to whom is being outsourced "technologic capital". In a sense, this is not a bad thing given that most of these countries do not have a solidified or able agricultural ability. There are days I look at Russia -- with large parts simply unhabitable by humans, and think what types of industry are best suited for those areas within that country as a trade item. Well... weapons, and weapons testing, for one, might be an answer. How about oil? And Oil drilling? The temps in those areas are fairly predictable.

Throughout history, yes, economic pinnacles of stress have occurred. I don't forget the great depression; my parents both grew up during the depression. And what they learned left its mark upon me.

I do not for one second believe that "money" will be minted -- in order to produce an "strong" inflation base.

As corruption and the axis of "evil" is weeded out of the "global" system, more *real* money is freed up, and therefore accountable, and therefore recognizable as an assessment tool; not just by companies but by countries.

My belief is -- the money IS real and existent already within the global market economy -- but hidden from view due too many year's corruption.

En sum, I am far more optimistic, possibly, than you. Is it a gamble? YES. I do most certainly concur with you.

What matters in the US, IMHO, is keeping the "adults" in charge. Democrats and liberals have clearly shown their inabilities or rather, disability, in behaving as adults.

The elections, here in the US, are what is critical. Whom we elect. And continue to elect. If the population elects liberal Democrats, then assuredly, the doomsday scenario will playout in the standard con-game name of "social justice".

However, leaders in business and in governments around the world KNOW their economies are tied to the US -- and should the US fall, they fall with her.

Although, yes, there is much which can be worried about, by my own eyes, do I see solid and decent adults rising to the potential crisis which can be on the "global scene" and making steps to remedy this runaway horse called "blather" (for lack of better coinage) being spouted by people and persons who aid and abet a world collapse.

6 posted on 02/09/2006 4:30:23 AM PST by Alia
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To: Alia
I agree with many of your points, but to have put them in would have interrupted the flow of the piece as written. You may have inspired a Part II. I'll reply in detail tonight.

Cheers!

7 posted on 02/09/2006 5:12:59 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Alia; All
Thoughtful commentary, you've written. I'll bite.

I'm grateful, but please note that it wasn't titled "Bite Me." :-)

One thing not factored into your equasion (among many) is that there exists no country in the US, like the US -- with its laws and flaws, it is still rooted in the finest example of what every country could become, but immediately will not and due to existing circumstances within their own countries.

There was a fascinating book which I was reading over someone else's shoulder :-) and whose title I cannot recall, which was a brilliant exposition of the central role that orderly devolution of property and uniform laws designed to enable business, have contributed primarily to the prosperity of the US.

In conjuction with our intellectual property and our inherited morality (no need to bribe govt. officials at every step for the *chance* to be left alone "just for awhile")--it makes it quite possible that China and India will never become the economic engines of the world supplanting the US, which so many "thoughtful" people seem to hope for.

Currently, Americans ARE waking up. More and more parents are demanding a better education for their children. More people are realizing that private savings is BETTER than "consuming". Although the Asian Tigers outrank the US in private savings -- those private savings are fueled, by government hand, into a centralized form of trade and commerce. We've already witnessed what happens (Russia). Dittos, India -- although India has more "leeway" in re private industry than does China.

The reason the US is not saving is the out-of-control emphasis on quarterly earnings EACH and EVERY quarter on Wall Street. This puts tremendous pressure on companies to "make the numbers" and lends itself to forced marketing. If people in the US put more of an emphasis on "thou shalt not covet" (and that commandment ALSO refers to your neighbor's Lexus, and his trophy wife's plastic surgery, even though they are not mentioned by name) we'd be in better shape.

Add to that the veritable explosion of credit (credit cards, personal loans, home equity lines of credit : all are out of control compared to when I was a kid. Not to mention the inflationary tendencies of the D.I.N.K's using credit to expand their effective purchasing power even more...).

But as you pointed out, there are pitfalls in the other direction as well.

These problems in those countries are not at all going to change overnight, or for a long time in the foreseeable future.

They might even get worse, as it appears both China and India are going through the "robber baron" phase of industrialization. It remains to be seen if the societal and governmental mechanisms for accountability are strong enough to effect enough social changes to satisfy the impoverished.

Which reminds me, all the people who are so in favor of making India and China rich because it will benefit the poor starving massses:

a) Isn't that the *EXACT OPPOSITE* of Marxism? Do you mean all the US lefties adopted Marxism merely cause it was so useful to screw the US, and they don't want it for everybody?

b) If they dodge that, then isn't what is being advocated for China and India dangerously close to Reagan's "trickle-down" economics which the left derided for so long?

As crass and cold as it may appear, as more "seniors" begin hitting the wall, the "Soros-euthanazia" movement begins to grimly reap, IME. More people will choose a non-medicalized "life-sentence" to a life which involves living at the doctor's offices and being a human guinea pig.

That is to be fervently hoped for. There was an Evangelical Christina, Francis Schaeffer, who not too long after Roe v. Wade wrote a book in which he predicted that the philosophical aftermath of abortion on demand would be euthanasia. It will be interesting to see whether the 60's generation who advocated abortion for their own convenience will be sacrificed in turn for others' convenience.

In sum, there is an equilibrium point already built in between "left" and "right" in America, by my estimates.

I'd call it a grey area, a "no-man's land". And that area itself can wobble from left to right over time.

As far as exports/imports -- China will take babysteps in opening their isolationist door to receiving imports from the US -- this will take time.

This is the fervent wish of the multinationals. It is not all about lack of environmental laws and wage arbitrage, but about creating new customers. See my vanity here.

As the left continues to hammer, grovel, rhapsodize over "global warming" -- alongside many manufacturing plants being outsourced to countries with loose "environmental standards" -- more of the US workforce will be needed "abroad" to deal with many of the resulting effects of the leftist "agenda" built, erected, established, proselytized, activized in many other countries.

I fervently hope so. But between the incompetence of the govt. TSA guards ("frisking Grandma") and the zealotry of Muslims to "kill American", not as many people will go overseas as might. I just hope some of the consulting jobs will get "offshored" from those countries BACK to the U.S. Now THAT'd be ironic!

I watch the federal deficit; but not as a figure separate from all else going on. We are in a newer age. Given the cultural gaps which exist as a primary element in other countries, the US with its grace and support of "the invisible hand" will continue to lead.

I agree, except for demographics. That might be why Bush wants to increase Mexican and H-1B immigration so much. We won't care about their minds (cultures), we just want their bodies :-)

I say, let the lefties continue to "bring it all down". In so doing, do they strengthen the economic US hand.

:-o oh my !

Yes, it's cold to say this.

The truth can hurt.

However, for the millions of people in the US who do not comprehend "ECONOMICS" -- they will assuredly fall prey to a libbie huckster ranting about social justice, and therefore be as "useful idiots" and through THEIR own choice. Dittos, application to the civilians in other countries.

In general I agree. Except for Freepers :-)

I am not as frightened nor as overly worried over the trade deficit, at moment, as some are. There are countries who really still do "owe" the US due "forgiven/blinked debt" -- are such debts ever really forgiven? No.

One problem I wonder about: Mid-east. Basically their only export IS oil. What happens when the cartel is no longer "ruling the roost"?

What did they do before anyone had any use for crude oil?

The Hatfields and the Abdullahs! (Unless they begin to invest their petrodollars in other industries NOW and live off the income of the other industries. Think of it as a "societal 401(k)".)

I believe we will see a fluorishing in the economies of most all countries. Countries which have only single or maybe even double-digit export items in trade will wish to do MORE trade with countries which have multiple exports.

A rising tide lifts all boats...and drowns the losers even deeper.

Frankly, some countries will always be in deficit purely due resources, or lack thereof. I look at the countries, currently, to whom is being outsourced "technologic capital". In a sense, this is not a bad thing given that most of these countries do not have a solidified or able agricultural ability. There are days I look at Russia -- with large parts simply unhabitable by humans, and think what types of industry are best suited for those areas within that country as a trade item. Well... weapons, and weapons testing, for one, might be an answer. How about oil? And Oil drilling? The temps in those areas are fairly predictable.

Howzabout Singapore and Hong Kong? They do it by sheer will power, without much of anything tangible to exchange.

Throughout history, yes, economic pinnacles of stress have occurred. I don't forget the great depression; my parents both grew up during the depression. And what they learned left its mark upon me.

Aye. I do not for one second believe that "money" will be minted -- in order to produce an "strong" inflation base.

I don't know either way, but the temptation is there to some.

As corruption and the axis of "evil" is weeded out of the "global" system, more *real* money is freed up, and therefore accountable, and therefore recognizable as an assessment tool; not just by companies but by countries.

Interesting take, can we affix transparency to Central America, Africa, and China? Imagine what Mexico could do with its natural resources with an honest government...

My belief is -- the money IS real and existent already within the global market economy -- but hidden from view due too many year's corruption.

Swiss bank accounts. Or Nigerian ones--I believe if you send your SS# and bank account information they can give you a cut of the frozen assets...

En sum, I am far more optimistic, possibly, than you. Is it a gamble? YES. I do most certainly concur with you.

I am sorry, I did not mean things to sound so pessimistic; in reading your comments and snarks_when_bored's (whose wisdom I greatly respect) I realize I came across as Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. All I had meant to do was to ask "will inflation or deflation win in the US given the opposing currents in each direction" ?

What matters in the US, IMHO, is keeping the "adults" in charge. Democrats and liberals have clearly shown their inabilities or rather, disability, in behaving as adults.

Cheney / Rumsfeld '08 and Coulter and Mark Levin to the Supreme Court !

The elections, here in the US, are what is critical. Whom we elect. And continue to elect. If the population elects liberal Democrats, then assuredly, the doomsday scenario will playout in the standard con-game name of "social justice".

Let all the Freepers say Amen! However, leaders in business and in governments around the world KNOW their economies are tied to the US -- and should the US fall, they fall with her.

And you KNOW what I'm talking about !

Although, yes, there is much which can be worried about, by my own eyes, do I see solid and decent adults rising to the potential crisis which can be on the "global scene" and making steps to remedy this runaway horse called "blather" (for lack of better coinage) being spouted by people and persons who aid and abet a world collapse.

Gramsci failed. He tried to seed the US with hidden communists who would overthrow the US from within. But the Christian faith and common horse-sense of the US citizenry, coupled with their addiction to Freedom and the 2nd amendment, meant we outlasted them. Now the 1st wave of Gramsci-inspired shock troops is dying of old age. And their successors are merely oversexed retards who do not have the fire of Marxist commitment, and will fold when challenged. To quote Tolkien, "Forth Eorlingas!" :-)

Cheers!

8 posted on 02/09/2006 8:04:59 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Alia
I was reading old posts and came across this.

Please re-read your post 6 and consider posting it in vanity form as proof of your Schiff-like prescience about Obama...!

Cheers!

13 posted on 01/26/2009 7:02:40 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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