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Mother fights hospital to keep baby on life support (Terri's Legacy)
KTEN.com ^ | June 1, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 06/01/2006 7:20:27 AM PDT by 8mmMauser

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To: Sun

What struck me about that statement, was that he wasn't just advocating denying Daniel extraordinary treatment, nor even minimal care. He was saying that Daniel should be killed, without so much as the benefit of comfort care.


121 posted on 06/01/2006 9:18:39 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
What struck me about that statement, was that he wasn't just advocating denying Daniel extraordinary treatment, nor even minimal care. He was saying that Daniel should be killed, without so much as the benefit of comfort care.

Bald-faced lie. And, please ping me if you speak about me rather than engaging in gossip.

122 posted on 06/01/2006 9:21:30 PM PDT by sinkspur ( Don Cheech. Vito Corleone would like to meet you......Vito Corleone.....)
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To: sinkspur

You said you knew what palliative care is. Do you, or don't you?


123 posted on 06/01/2006 9:24:02 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

We've been through this already. Good night.


124 posted on 06/01/2006 9:25:25 PM PDT by sinkspur ( Don Cheech. Vito Corleone would like to meet you......Vito Corleone.....)
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To: sinkspur

And btw, it really hurts my feelings when you, of all people, call me a liar, Deacon.


125 posted on 06/01/2006 9:25:45 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

"The problem with a diagnosis of brain death, is that some doctors declare brain death while there is still some brain activity."

What doctors? How do you know this?
Any action like this should be treated as a crime.


126 posted on 06/02/2006 4:13:42 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: BykrBayb
"But still a living human being, right?"

The body is still alive, yes, and deserves respect. But, clinically, the person is dead.

127 posted on 06/02/2006 4:32:02 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
For the purposes of this discussion, I believe most people would describe "brain damaged" as an unconscious patient showing little or no brain activity with no hope of improvement.

"But still a living human being, right?"

The body is still alive, yes, and deserves respect. But, clinically, the person is dead.

That is not dead.

128 posted on 06/02/2006 6:23:51 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: Scotswife

I've read numerous cases from various news sources in which a patient was declared brain dead while parts of the brain still functioned. I haven't kept records on it, but if you read the news on a regular basis, you'll read of these cases also. I'll try to remember and ping you next time I come across one.


129 posted on 06/02/2006 6:26:30 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: Scotswife

Read the article linked in Post 4. Not only does it give specifics of the brain damage ("almost brain-dead"), but it gives some nasty details about this woman.

She is an unfit mother for a perfectly healthy child, let alone one with as many special needs as this one. The state has had him in custody for two months.


130 posted on 06/02/2006 6:30:42 AM PDT by Xenalyte (There are some things money can't buy, like a dinosaur.)
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To: BykrBayb

"I've read numerous cases from various news sources in which a patient was declared brain dead while parts of the brain still functioned. I haven't kept records on it, but if you read the news on a regular basis, you'll read of these cases also. I'll try to remember and ping you next time I come across one."

I'd be interested in knowing if these people were prosecuted.


131 posted on 06/02/2006 9:56:22 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Xenalyte

"She is an unfit mother for a perfectly healthy child, let alone one with as many special needs as this one. The state has had him in custody for two months."

Thanks for showing me where that link was.

Clearly this woman does have problems.
The article still does not state the baby's diagnosis.
It appears he is not brain dead. They didn't seem to mention coma? pvs?
When it comes to brain injury, 2 months is not considered a very long time to properly assess the extent of damage (it has been recommended that a diagnosis of pvs not even be attempted until one year after the incident)

So I guess my opinion about the baby hasn't changed much. If she is right about observing responiveness in him - it doesn't matter what kind of a mother she is.

I hope they don't decide his fate based on what kind of a person she is.


132 posted on 06/02/2006 10:10:59 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

I haven't heard of any prosecutions. The courts just seem to accept that there can be a legitimate difference of opinion. Anything a doctor says is taken as gospel truth, unless another doctor says otherwise. Then the judge considers it a mere difference of opinion, and picks the one he likes best. I suppose a lot more thought goes into it than just this simplified version might suggest, but that does end up being the end result.


133 posted on 06/02/2006 11:11:18 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
An unconscious patient on life support showing little or no brain activity with no hope of improvement is dead.

I am not, however, saying that they should be automatically disconnected from life support. I'm simply saying they're dead.

When do you consider a person on life support dead? Ever?

134 posted on 06/02/2006 1:38:47 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: BykrBayb

"I haven't heard of any prosecutions. The courts just seem to accept that there can be a legitimate difference of opinion. Anything a doctor says is taken as gospel truth, unless another doctor says otherwise. Then the judge considers it a mere difference of opinion, and picks the one he likes best. I suppose a lot more thought goes into it than just this simplified version might suggest, but that does end up being the end result."

I'm curious because in our situation the only way doctors could do that would be to fudge test results and lie for each other.
I'm not sure how it differs from state to state, but they were required to prove she had lost her automatic reflexes - her ability to maintain certain hormonal functions - as well as undergo diagnostic brain imaging and EEG.
We were also lucky in that her godfather is a surgeon- was present during most of the testing - and was able to translate the medical-speak for us. He too agreed with the doctors.
Three doctors had to concur by law, declare death at the time they agreed to the diagnosis and proceeded to sign the documents declaring death.

I really haven't seen much in the news where one doctor would declare death and another doctor would not.
It seems the patient would either meet the criteria or not.


135 posted on 06/02/2006 1:43:16 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: robertpaulsen

It's foolish to keep a dead body hooked up to life support. But that doesn't mean you should kill people who are still alive. There is no such thing as a live body with a dead person trapped inside. There is no such thing as a live body with no person inside.

Unless and until you have a basic understanding of the difference between life and death, you're not going to understand why it's wrong to kill people who are still alive.


136 posted on 06/02/2006 1:44:00 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: Scotswife

The problem is, the criteria is not uniform in every jurisdiction. Not all doctors check all brain functions. Sometimes the patient is heavily sedated, and sometimes not.


137 posted on 06/02/2006 1:49:51 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

"The problem is, the criteria is not uniform in every jurisdiction. Not all doctors check all brain functions. Sometimes the patient is heavily sedated, and sometimes not."

Well...again...this is really a crime.
If this is true than some patients are having organs harvested while they're still alive.

There certainly needs to be uniform criteria that no one should be allowed to stray from.


138 posted on 06/02/2006 1:53:03 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

Yes, there should!


139 posted on 06/02/2006 1:54:13 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: Alberta's Child

Thanks for that.


140 posted on 06/02/2006 6:15:13 PM PDT by bjs1779
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