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Mother fights hospital to keep baby on life support (Terri's Legacy)
KTEN.com ^ | June 1, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 06/01/2006 7:20:27 AM PDT by 8mmMauser

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To: robertpaulsen
An unconscious patient on life support showing little or no brain activity with no hope of improvement is dead.

I know this must get old for you people. But does Terri look "dead"? I believe you stated she was, correct?

I hope you don't end up like Cranford when you lie about it.

Terri Video bump

141 posted on 06/02/2006 6:28:19 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779

I don't know what goes on at some funerals, but I've never seen a corpse do that. Well, there was that one episode of Twilight Zone, but I don't think that counts.


142 posted on 06/02/2006 7:15:11 PM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
Well, there was that one episode of Twilight Zone, but I don't think that counts.

Hmmm, which episode was that?

143 posted on 06/02/2006 7:27:36 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: 8mmMauser
How did we ever get to the point that a mother has to drag in lawyers to insist that a hospital, doctors, and nurses keep her baby alive?

Don't reply. I know.

144 posted on 06/02/2006 7:33:33 PM PDT by HoosierHawk
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To: robertpaulsen

Ronald Cranford Passes Away

"Ronald Cranford died last night in a hospice near Minneapolis. He was a good man and a good sport. We are all in his debt for his work in fighting to improve dying in america. Ron got in the trenches and helped people. We should learn from his example." - Arthur Caplan

Dr. Cranford's (now deceased) examination of Terri. http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri%20big%20eyes.rm.ramDr.Ronald Cranford Passes-Away

145 posted on 06/02/2006 7:34:07 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779
"But does Terri look "dead"? I believe you stated she was, correct?"

Does she "look" dead? What kind of a question is that? Do we treat patients on how they "look"?

I don't care how she "looked". She "was" dead.

146 posted on 06/03/2006 4:47:51 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: BykrBayb
"There is no such thing as a live body with a dead person trapped inside."

Uh, yeah, there is.

147 posted on 06/03/2006 4:48:46 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: bjs1779

What does he have to do with the article?


148 posted on 06/03/2006 4:59:45 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: yellowdoghunter
Texas' Futile Law seems to be quite subjective. Take Ms. Vo for example. She's doing okay right now and they were ready to bump her off.

In some cases like w/Ms. Vo, they rush to subjective judgment.

149 posted on 06/03/2006 9:02:49 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: sinkspur
Terri Schindler Schiavo received less than palliative care for FIVE YEARS in a hospice designated for terminal patients who had less than six months to live.

That was a clear case of MEDICAID FRAUD but that was covered up because it would have also gotten DCF, ACHA, the courts and many death lobbied republicans in Florida in trouble.

By killing Terri, everybody else gets a pardon for her murder. If Terri lived, many "fine" public servants would have been investigated eventually. They had to get rid of the body and burn/shread all investigative files.

Attorney General Gonzalez has an open investigation re: Terri's Civil Rights. That is either another whitewash investigation or a real one.

If Judge Greer is ever impeached and convicted which he should be, then I'll know it was a REAL investigation.

150 posted on 06/03/2006 9:08:37 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: robertpaulsen
Terri received Medicaid benefits because Michael Schiavo fraudulently purchased properties with Terri's funds which then put Terri in an indigent category. This was money laundering and since Judge Greer was so bought and paid for, he never had Mikey do a real accounting of Terri's funds. The rest of her rehab money went to death lawyers Felos, Bushnell, Baskin and the ACLU was at Mikey's death counsel's table too.

This was Medicaid fraud at its finest if you consider she was in a terminal six month or less facility for FIVE YEARS not getting any therapy at all because Mikey ordered no therapy back in 1993. Hospices cannot do therapy and they are not licensed for chronic care. Terri was in a bad place for five years without the right treatment.

MEDICAID FRAUD so taxpayers did pay. Mikey and his lawyers made Terri a pauper so they could stick her in a hospice. Finally, when Mikey filed joint tax returns, he didn't share part of the tax refund with Terri. He took it all. Mikey didn't even get Terri's wheelchair fixed because if it was fixed, she could have gone outside, gone anywhere, even into judge greer's courtroom so that the crooked judge and everyone else would have noticed that Terri was alert and aware of her surroundings.

Terri was caged and nobody could see her because the secret would have been out that she was not pvs.

FIVE YEARS IMPRISONED by the hospice, courts, medicaid, DCF, and ACHA systems. Terri would be alive today if they hadn't taken away her Ensure and water.

151 posted on 06/03/2006 9:16:16 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: Alberta's Child
Terri breathed on her own. She recognized her family members and her spiritual advisors. She distinguished when new people came in her jail cell. Terri liked the music that was popular before the suspicious collapse. She liked Journey and Wham. She laughed and she cried. Terri had PMS too. She screamed when she found out the tube was coming out. If I knew somebody was trying to kill me, I'd scream too.

But, the cops at Hospice Woodside were only there to make sure that Terri would die. They weren't there to protect and to serve. They were there to back up murderous Judge George Greer, a republican who I'm hoping will get impeached and thrown in jail before long. It could happen when the Bushes term out. It could easily happen.

152 posted on 06/03/2006 9:20:24 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: bjs1779
Your screen name is hard for me to recall but "hi". Guess you know that Dr. Death Ron Cranford is dead and so is one of the JQC's counsel, MacDonald. MacDonald was nicknamed Mr. Ethics.

So, we lost Dr. Death and Mr. Ethics (bioethics).

153 posted on 06/03/2006 9:23:28 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: Scotswife

The medical providers don't seem to be noting "vital signs". That's the best indicator if someone is near death or not.


154 posted on 06/03/2006 9:24:39 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: BykrBayb
CNN SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY NIGHT: Special BODY PARTS

It's supposed to be about the downside of organ donation. It's even bad for the recipient in many instances. (I wonder if they will discuss the organ harvesting in China of Christians and dissenters.)

155 posted on 06/03/2006 9:27:44 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: robertpaulsen

"The body is still alive, yes, and deserves respect. But, clinically, the person is dead."

Trouble is, "clinically" could be wrong.

This was in "Our Sunday Visitor," the April 10, 2005 edition, & the author is Lori Hadacek Chaplin.

It was suggested to a doctor that they pull the plug of a little baby's ventilator, because he had flat brain waves. The doctor did not, and little Joseph not only lived, but went on to receive straight A's in school, run track and play baseball.

The doctor, Dr. Byrne, is now a clinical professor of pediatrics at the Medical College of Ohio and HAS BEEN A PERSISTENT VOICE against using brain-wave criteria for DETERMINING DEATH.



157 posted on 06/03/2006 10:21:59 AM PDT by Sun (Hillary had a D-/F rating on immigration; now she wants to build a wall????)
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To: Sun

So how should that determination be made?


158 posted on 06/03/2006 11:29:58 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Alberta's Child
>> And if she had died when they turned off her ventilator years ago, what would have been listed as her cause of death?

Homicide.

159 posted on 06/03/2006 6:00:44 PM PDT by T'wit (It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. -- H.L. Mencken)
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To: Scotswife
>> Brain death is much easier to diagnose than pvs. It is non subjective

I might have thought so once. Now I don't, for two reasons.

One, "brain death" was an invention (1960s) for the specific purpose of harvesting body organs for transplantion. In other words, there is an ulterior motive for the diagnosis of "brain death." The ulterior motive is not for the good of the patient but for the purposes of the hospital. It is not to be trusted.

Before that, everyone knew what death was -- when ALL body function ceased. But when the body dies, the organs spoil. So, a committee at Harvard invented "brain death" in order to assert that a comatose patient was "dead" and carve him up for his organs while they are still fresh.

Two, organs for transplantation are worth a great deal of money. By carving up a live "brain dead" patient for his organs, a medical facility can (a) eliminate the cost of care for that person and (b) make a big profit on his organs. Obviously, money now becomes a factor in what should be purely medical decisions. In insurance, this is called a Moral Hazard. The prospect of profit leads hospitals (and especially their so-called "ethics" committees) to cut corners, gloss over moral questions and otherwise make decisions that may actually kill a viable patient.

The original Harvard conditions for diagnosis "brain death" were fairly rigorous, but with that strong money incentive to get transplant organs, standards have loosened. The "ethics" committees rationalize a kind of medical cannibalism, arguing that even if they do kill some innocent patients, those patients' organs help to save other lives. For one example in my own extended family, a person was chopped up for organs despite being able to breathe on his own (= not brain dead) and also despite written refusal to donate his organs. They paid no attention to his wishes.

You are right that the diagnosis of "PVS" is highly subjective. No two medics call it the same way. It is so sloppy and vague that the "PVS" diagnosis mostly seems to be an excuse to euthanize unwanted patients. It ought to be tossed out.

160 posted on 06/03/2006 7:22:31 PM PDT by T'wit (It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. -- H.L. Mencken)
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