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To: Vectorian
Bottom line Aggy - my govt trusts me with three firearms. The govt banned handguns. The country then had a general election and a party that supported the handgun ban was voted in by a huge majority. The vast majority of the British population agree with the handgun ban - if you don't like democracy, that's hard luck.

Thankfully, we have a U.S. Constitution and state constitutions, which delineate rights that are not eligible to be 'banned' or 'voted away'. My right to possess and employ deadly force in self-defense is not subject to the whims of hand-wringing ninny's.

The three firearms you retain (for now, because they too may become unpopular one day and become banned) are of little use for defending yourself or other innocents in an everyday urban setting.

If we ever decide we want handguns, we the people can vote democratically for it. But don't hold your breath as the British are quite willing to keep handguns banned as long as it means we can have the unique freedom of an unarmed civil police force who police by consent, not by armed force. We aren't willing to swap handguns for a heavily armed paramilitary police force like the US 'enjoys'.

I take it your quotes around 'enjoys' implies sarcasm. My state's constitution (Pennsylvania) allows me to be as equally well-armed as any police officer. The police are no threat to me, just as I am no threat to them. The vast majority of police shootings are justified and I can't imagine anything more useless than an unarmed cop. Would an unarmed cop engage 6 youths in a fist fight on a subway car, to protect an innocent civilian? Not unless he wanted to have his brains stomped out.

Only a handgun is truly effective at providing countervailing force against thugs, especially against multiple attackers who possess superior physical strength. That is an inarguable fact for civilians and police alike

Your country has chosen to trade away liberties in the interest of 'safety'. That is certainly your perogative. We chose differently. I will gladly risk the chance of being a victim of gun crime, as long as I have the liberty of arming myself for defense. I bid you a cordial 'Good Day' and depart with the words of Benjamin Franklin:

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

186 posted on 06/28/2006 10:44:07 AM PDT by Panzerfaust
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To: Panzerfaust

"Thankfully, we have a U.S. Constitution and state constitutions, which delineate rights that are not eligible to be 'banned' or 'voted away'. My right to possess and employ deadly force in self-defense is not subject to the whims of hand-wringing ninny's."

No ninny's but your Constitutional Right means nothing. Just ask the Mayor of Chicago, Oak Park and Wilmette to name a few.


197 posted on 06/28/2006 10:58:10 AM PDT by roofgoat
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To: Panzerfaust

'Thankfully, we have a U.S. Constitution and state constitutions, which delineate rights that are not eligible to be 'banned' or 'voted away'. My right to possess and employ deadly force in self-defense is not subject to the whims of hand-wringing ninny's.'

Except by the process of ammendment, which happens regularly if I recall. . . .

'The three firearms you retain (for now, because they too may become unpopular one day and become banned) are of little use for defending yourself or other innocents in an everyday urban setting.'

Yes, you are right. In the average UK urban setting only a desert eagle, twin AK47s and an Apache Longbow in support will do! :D I don't live in an urban setting though, quite the contrary, so for now my guns will do just fine for hunting and scaring the occasional burglar!

'I take it your quotes around 'enjoys' implies sarcasm. My state's constitution (Pennsylvania) allows me to be as equally well-armed as any police officer. The police are no threat to me, just as I am no threat to them. The vast majority of police shootings are justified and I can't imagine anything more useless than an unarmed cop. Would an unarmed cop engage 6 youths in a fist fight on a subway car, to protect an innocent civilian? Not unless he wanted to have his brains stomped out.'

No implication of sarcasm, just of sadness that you have no choice but to have an armed paramilitary force to control your citizens. My constiution allows me to be better armed than most police! :D And yes, British cop would engage a group of yobs on the underground - I've seen one do so, and he won with no-one being shot!

'Your country has chosen to trade away liberties in the interest of 'safety'. That is certainly your perogative. We chose differently. I will gladly risk the chance of being a victim of gun crime, as long as I have the liberty of arming myself for defense. I bid you a cordial 'Good Day' and depart with the words of Benjamin Franklin:'

You see handguns as liberty, I see an unarmed police force and much lower murder rates whilst still being able to own guns as a much greater liberty that your belief in handguns denies you. Cultural differences! ;-)

PS - nice quote from Ben, it seems a little lost on a country that loves guns but is being invaded through an open border and slowly de-Americanised by an unarmed foe. . . . .


199 posted on 06/28/2006 11:08:39 AM PDT by Vectorian
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