Posted on 07/23/2006 4:40:15 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
I'm looking for some advice from someone who knows a bit more about personal computers than I do. I've just ordered a new computer for home/work, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to protect it from spyware, adware, viruses, etc. I've used ZoneAlarm Security Suite in the past, but the latest release of that software has been a total disaster and has left many users without any firewall protection at all.
My question is this . . . What is the difference between internet security software and something like a Netgear router when it comes to protection against unwanted intrusions? Would I be better off with the router or the software, or should I use them both in tandem to provide the best security?
The problem with ZA -- from what I understand -- is that its protection is almost "too robust." I may not be describing this very well, but I read somewhere that uninstalling the software triggers some kind of defensive mechanism that prevents the user from over-writing the old ZoneAlarm DLL files. So when you try to install the new version, there is some sort of incompatibility between the "old" DLL files and the "new" ones.
Does that make any sense?
No, it probably didn't. I don't know what your system is like, but I'm sure- from the sounds of things- that you are running some version of Windows. One of the very first things the new malware programs [viruses, trojans, worms, spyware, etc.] do is try to disable or shut down Zone Alarm and any anti-virus programs running or installed. I seriously doubt that your problem was ZoneAlarm. Your problem was that you don't know anything about computers (no offense), and some malware zapped everything it could while infecting (or trying to) your system. And it probably happened way before you started seeing problems with "ZoneAlarm". Your machine was infected by something and that started causing problems with the anti-malware software. Believe me, I know. If you had a very good computer savvy tech look at your system, I'm sure he would find many malware files in it.
You should NEVER connect to the internet without being behind a router/firewall or some software firewall-- preferably both.
I think the new computer comes with anti-virus software package that can be upgraded for 12 months
Yeah, probably a rather useless "package" from one of the below compromised "security vendors".
I would recommend that you have someone [or pay someone- it will be worth it] to setup your system with hardware firewall and software firewall, plus a good anti-virus software. DO NOT use/subscribe to/rely on Norton or McAfee/NAI or M$ anti-virus programs- or Security Suites. They have all been and will continue to be, by company policy, compromised programs that won't really protect you. Surprisingly enough, there are actually free anti-virus programs that are better than the "package" you will buy or get with a computer.
Again, from what I have read in your postings, you should hire someone technically competent to setup your complete system and be able to call them to get you out of trouble when it happens. It is really worth the little bit that it will cost you- compared to the vast amounts of time, frustration, and business losses by trying to do-it-yourself to save money. You just don't know enough technical stuff and it will take much more to get to that level of knowledge, so paying someone who has gotten there and can do it right is worth it... and that doesn't mean taking it into the local CompUSA or Fry's "repair" shop.
Sorry to be such a pessimist, but I've been working with PC computers for over 25 years and know whereof I speak. When it takes about 3+ minutes before a new, clean computer connected to the internet is compromised by malware, it's gotten beyond doing it yourself for the average Freeper/computer user. Just 'cuz you know what a Netgear router is doesn't mean that you can set it up, set up the computer and all the anti-malware software and maintain it in the face of minute-by-minute changing threats.
Or you could move to something other than Windoze, and lower your threat levels exponentially.
You have an XP firewall, it comes with one, it's in the settings along with Display, Network, etal.
Use it, it's very good. It turns on immediately, at the beginning of bootup and stays on through shut down. These are critical phases that can allow your computer to be killed. All the third party firewalls are off during these times. They bite. Leave it on even with a third party firewall.
If you follow my suggestions, you'll be fine. If you must use IE, install Spybot Search and Destroy and Spywareblaster. They'll preload the settings to save you headaches.
Don't login with an admin account for daily use. Make your self an user account. This keep new software(spy ware and other junk)from have the necessary rights to be install. Only log on as admin if you need to change something or add software.
You may know a lot about computers, but on this point you have no idea what you are talking about. The problems I've had with ZoneAlarm began within the installation process for an upgraded version of the software.
Here's the link to the ZoneAlarm message board for product installation, new upgrades, etc.:
Just go through that board and see how many ZA customers are pulling their hair out over the same issue. There's no doubt in my mind that there is something wrong with Version 6.5.722 of the ZoneAlarm software.
If I have a problem with malware it wouldn't be the first time, but it's not the case here. I've run scans with AdAware SE and Spybot several times each day since my system crashed, and I track any changes in my registry file by using HijackThis to compare current to previous versions of the file.
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.txt
It's the URL for the hosts file. It can be used pointing to localhost, but it works better pointed to 0.0.0.0 or just 0 . Do the search and replace in a spreadsheet or Word, save as text. Just preserve that localhost entry it warns you about. It will improve your internet experience like you wouldn't believe.
Your current Win2000 may be damaged beyond repair. After your new puter is settled in, you can do something drastic, like reformat it.
Of course, I would still have to use some kind of protection on the new one for those times when I am on the road and must use the web browser to access my work e-mail account.
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How-to and Tutorial: Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a HOSTS File Don't surf the Net without it! PCWorld: How to Install a Firewall Using Ad-Aware SE Using Spybot - Search and Destroy |
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Why?
Turn on the windows firewall, it works. Don't let ZA or McGagme or Symiantec turn it off.
So run two software firewalls?
Copy in a hosts file, a real one has at least 10,000 entries. Don't match to the loopback device, 127.0.0.1
Why not?
And when you shut down, WinXP will ask if you want to install updates, never do so.
Why?
Was just trying to help. Based upon my experience, ZoneAlarm is one of the best software firewalls available. So when a client tells me that ZA was the problem, I've almost always found otherwise.
But then, I don't recommend upgrading and installing the absolutely newest, slickest, full of bells 'n'whistles software for any reason. The ZA that is on the computer I'm using to type this is ver. 5.5, probably a year old. The free, personal version. I don't "upgrade" unless there is a specific reason to do so. Like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
From what you say, there probably was a problem with your new version. Which exactly illustrates my point about you not being computer savvy enough to set everything up correctly. If you don't NEED the newest version, you don't NEED the new version. Wait until a bunch of other guinea pigs have tested it and yelled about the problems on the forums. Easy, huh?
If I have a problem with malware it wouldn't be the first time, but it's not the case here. I've run scans with AdAware SE and Spybot several times each day since my system crashed, and I track any changes in my registry file by using HijackThis to compare current to previous versions of the file.
Wow! Many here have given you good advice, but now you start giving the impression that you weren't quite as naive as your original post indicated. Am sorry now that I even tried to offer assistance. Badmouthing a good product like ZA really gets you - or anyone else- nowhere. YOU were the one who downloaded an untried software upgrade.
AdAware, Spybot and HijackThis are great. It's good that you have them. Unfortunately, just reading about them and installing them isn't enough to protect you. There are threats that all of those won't find or handle. But if you know so much about malware and computers, why are you asking in a vanity here for help when you don't know whether you should have a hardware router/firewall combined with software firewall/anti-malware? Your original query was a pretty basic one and indicated not a deep knowledge of the subject.
Then we find that you have IT people at your work that you could have consulted with. Why didn't you, instead of posting here? Your question was a pretty basic one that they would have quickly been able to answer.
Sorry for trying to share some experience based upon your short request for assistance. I've just found in my experience that ZA is reliable and the problem is most often is BCAK [between chair and keyboard]
For others who may be following this thread for information about similar problems or information, I'll post the following, in addition to what's already listed:
1. Don't even hook a computer up to the internet (network, broadband or dialup) until you have firewall/router and anti-malware programs installed, setup and working. If you don't know how to do this, then have someone who does, do it for you. Don't even get online to get "updates" before you are protected.
2. DO NOT EVER use Internet Explorer or Outlook/Outlook Express on ANY computer that connects to the internet. These two programs are THE reason WHY there are networks of compromised computers, which account for most all malware propagation and about 60%+ of all spam. Neither of these programs can be patched in ANY way to make them completely safe. Their code is deeply embedded in the operating system itself and you cannot "fix" or "patch" it to make it secure. Use FireFox, Opera or other browser. Use Thunderbird, Eudora or other email programs.
3. NEVER open any email attachment, even from someone you know, unless you know what it is and have scanned/checked it first. This currently includes Excel spreadsheet files, PowerPoint presentation files, Word document files.
4. NEVER buy anything from spammail or respond to it.
5. DON'T go to any banking, auction or other website you get in an email, unless you know how to tell if it's legitimate or not. It's called Phishing and you don't even have to click on an email attachment to be infected by a malicious website.
6. NEVER upgrade any software just because there's a "new" version. Let others try it out and see what problems they have, if any. That's not saying not to update any signature or data files that the existing program requires or uses.
7. Don't rely on ANYTHING from Microsoft for "security". They wouldn't know security if it bit them in the a$$. Their software is the reason for zombied computers, and spammail.[They've already acknowledged that their "security suite" won't stop "MS Friendly" corporate malware, or their own for that matter.]
I wish you luck with your new computer. If we can be of any assistance, I'm sure you will just ask and the kind people here will help.
Rename the adminisrator account to something unguessable and give it a big password. Disable the guest account, in both places.
Why? Because administrator comes without a password, and any spyware can and does log in and have free run of the computer, thilly.
Turn on the windows firewall, it works. Don't let ZA or McGagme or Symiantec turn it off.
So run two software firewalls? You betcha dupa, and they don't conflict. And the WinXP firewall does work.
Copy in a hosts file, a real one has at least 10,000 entries. Don't match to the loopback device, 127.0.0.1
Why not? Because the machine actually pauses to look up loopback, but not null. Null B fastuh.
And when you shut down, WinXP will ask if you want to install updates, never do so.
Why? Because it just flipped into admin mode and installs spyware along with any legit upgrades. Kind of defeats running as limited user, dontcha think?
Thanks for the replies, spuds!! :-)
So do you have an alternate preferred method for installing win updates? Because they're there to patch specific vulnerabilities.
You can also disable multiple simultaneous logins to minimize the download without installation of spyware, but basically, this "feature" of Windows has made a lot of people rich. It's download'n'pray, like plug'n'play. I'm pretty unhappy about this bug, and it is a bug.
The press releases and early reviews for Vista tell me we'll have new headaches.
I tell folks if their biggest need for compatibility is Word, just use Office for Mac. At least I'm advising people to do what I do.
Get off the internet
From control panel >add/remove & remove old ZA (if no removal icon look for a Zone labs folder in windows explorer & delete)
Reboot in safe mode (F8 on boot up) & install new ZA download.
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