Today in History: Marie Antoinette beheaded (10/16/1793)

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[Continental Soldier]

It seems to me that Marie Antoinette was a simple young woman who was easilly spoiled in royalty, and who made a very convenient symbol for all that was wrong with France. That France was never able to conclude or resolve its own revolution tells us more than we need to know about its intellectual and philosophical leadership. More and more, the American Revolution, with so many great minds devoted to it, looks like a one time deal.

[GoLightly]

Your statement seems to be that one form of religious persecution acceptable. In mocking the Roman Catholic Church, raising up "La Deite de Raison" in her place, Christianity itself was being mocked.

Protestants also condemned heretics to die, so your point about the Inquisition misses the mark.

The US Constitution allowed for state churches, just none on the Federal level.

[MoochPooch]

It seems to me that Marie Antoinette was a simple young woman who was easilly spoiled in royalty, and who made a very convenient symbol for all that was wrong with France.

Marie Antoinette was villified in her lifetime, although afterwards somewhat exonerated, or at least treated more sympathetically.

Part of her frivolty and extravagance stemmed from frustration over her husband Louis XVI's sexual problems. Their marriage went unconsummated for seven years. After his problem was corrected, and they started having children, she started to mature. However, she never regained her reputation or popularity among the French people.

[sully777]

Your statement seems to be that one form of religious persecution acceptable. In mocking the Roman Catholic Church, raising up "La Deite de Raison" in her place, Christianity itself was being mocked.

"La Deite de Raison"--the goddess of reason as a whore persecuted Catholics...many a fundamentalist would role his eyes in the strong irony. In any event, I never said that any form of persecution is acceptable in my original post. Your comment suggests you view humor such as mockery as a form of religious persecution? On the contrary, mockery is great sport amongst every religious sect as a form of teaching--read Elijah's taunt of the priests of Baal or Jesus' taunts of the religious caste systems of his day.

Yet, your comment is not really connected to my original post. Regardless of your formed bias, iconoclastic behavior is not persecution. It's actually protected by the US constitution as free speech (unless in your ideal theocracy, you will revoke such freedoms). Iconoclastic views may be unpopular with a certain group taunted; however, it is not the same as the massacre of Beziers. Mockery is not the same as the Albigenses Crusade which was a church-state mandated persecution. The double cross of the Knights Templar was persecution. Krystalnacht was persecution. Anti-catholic laws in northern Europe was persecution. Sunday laws forcing Jews and Muslims to miss two days of work were subtle forms of persecution. Killing all Druids was persecution. Banning the use of the Celtic language in England was persecution. Killing Armenian Christians was persecution. Making Mithra ism illegal was persecution. Destroying the Library of Alexandria/Pergamon was unthinkable stupidity and a calculated persecution of the world of the "pagan"...Do you see the vast differences? As per my original post, allowing freedom of thought built up the USA on the idea of Enlightenment. Allowing freedoms is good although an icon may get mocked once in a while...at least no one loses their rights, private property, and/or life by the cold hand of the state.

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Protestants also condemned heretics to die, so your point about the Inquisition misses the mark.

Perhaps you should study the Inquisition closer, particularly as it involves the French government duties toward Rome. The French Republic's foreign and domestic policies were no longer led by the nose by the Office of Inquisition out of Rome after 1787. My point is that Protestant sects, nonconformists, and all other non-christians were technically outlawed in pre-revolution France. And Saint Bart's Day proved that a monarch's word could be revoked by royal-ecclestistical whimsy at any time. That meant they could be subject to capital punishment. That meant that all their substance could be confiscated. That meant they were subject to constant harassment from the state (see the history of double jeopardy in American law) on grounds of conscious. My point was that these sects along with other religions were freed from being "illegal" during the Revolution ...so your point is a non sequitur.

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The US Constitution allowed for state churches, just none on the Federal level.

May I suggest you purchase a copy of the Constitution. US Constitution does not allow a mandated state-religion on the federal or state level. The state of Maryland does not grant the Catholic Church sole custody of ecclesiastical authority. The state of Oklahoma does not grant the Southern Baptist Convention the rights granted to the Church of England in the UK. The state of Delaware does not force children to attend Lutheran-only schools. The tax monies of the citizens of Utah are not tithed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There is no state church in the USA.

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You would do well to read my comments carefully as it relates to the post I was reacting to.

[TheRealDBear]

Rush--"Bastille Day"

There's no bread, let them eat cake
There's no end to what they'll take
Flaunt the fruits of noble birth
Wash the salt into the earth

But they're marching to Bastille Day
La guillotine will claim her bloody prize
Free the dungeons of the innocent
The king will kneel and let his kingdom rise

Bloodstained velvet, dirty lace
Naked fear on every face
See them bow their heads to die
As we would bow as they rode by

And we're marching to Bastille Day
La guillotine will claim her bloody prize
Sing, oh choirs of cacophony
The king has kneeled, to let his kingdom rise

Lessons taught but never learned
All around us anger burns
Guide the future by the past
Long ago the mould was cast

For they marched up to Bastille Day
La guillotine claimed her bloody prize
Hear the echoes of the centuries
Power isn't all that money buys