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Explaining the Shooting of Governor John Connally
Shown on FreeRepublic for the first time. | October 25, 2006 | Bill Charleston

Posted on 10/25/2006 7:54:41 AM PDT by BILL_C

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To: The KG9 Kid
2. "FBI agent at the autopsy who said there was no point of exit for the bullet found by probing with an instrument and his finger. That totally rules out the magic bullet... The reason it is so hard to understand is that the bullet hitting JFK's back had NO point of exit [...] the bullet to his neck was, by the hospital staff, believed to be an entrance wound. "

-- The FBI agent was not a medical examiner. The skin of Kennedy's back, just like yours and mine, moves on top of the musculature laying underneath. This is why a bullet hole in the upper dermis won't necessarily stay aligned with the tunnel created by the path of the bullet through the underlaying muscular tissue particularly after the corpse is laying in a supine position on an autopsy table. The misconception of this, coupled with an FBI man's casual and unprofessional examination of the entrance wound at Parkland Hospital, does not 'totally rule out' the so-called 'magic bullet'.

Well, the inspecection of the wound that FBI agent O'Neil talks about was done by Dr. Humes during the autopsy, not at Parkland. Therefore the probe was done by a military Doctor who said there was no point of exit and he used his finger and then an instrument to probe. Well, listen to them yourselves, it's pretty clear what he said.

<"FBI agent describes autopsy with probe and no point of exit">

"The integrity of the autopsy came into question". You should probably start to figure out the depth of the deception used. I know it's hard to grasp, especially over the years if you've bought hook line and sinker the biggest lie in history.

301 posted on 10/29/2006 2:19:53 AM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't und<)
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To: Shooter 2.5

I'm ignoring you because your juvenile. Now go away.


302 posted on 10/29/2006 4:27:55 AM PST by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: The KG9 Kid
3. "The Autopsy photos were NOT shown to the Warren Commission and the excuse is that was out of respect to the Kennedy Family.

-- Indeed, and that's no 'excuse'. Moreover, the medical drawings were created by a highly professional medical illustrator and are so good they're sometimes confused as the original autospy photographs made public years later.

REPLY:

As the FOX special in 2003 showed quite well, the drawings shown to the Warren Commission were based on Humes memory months later, and it clearly shows the bullet going into his neck, something that just didn't happen.

We should be able to agree that the bullet to JFK's back was below his shoulder blade, whether you look at the autopsy photo relesed later that WE can now see, or the picture of JFK's shirt, the bullet hole was so low that only a fool would believe the bullet could then leave JFK's neck (hitting the top of the knot of his tie) and then have a 25 degree down angle that the bullet would have to have had to do all the wounds to Connally's body. That's why this point is so historically significant.

Now that I've shown there is a valid alternative theory to the single bullet theory, we don't have to rely on the rediculous cartoons that Dale Meyer's produced in his MSM presentations that I talked about at the beginning of my presentation to conclude that a bullet going down could then go up, and then down again. To phrase it more simply, it didn't happen and any reasonable person knows it didn't.

Now let's look at the incorrect drawing shown to the Warren Commission:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Pictures shown to Warren Commission

IMG SRC=

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

JFK's Shirt Showing the bullet hole well below the base of his neck

Now, let's summarize all this:

The "Professional" drawings shown to the Warren Commission were incorrect in that they show the bullet hole to the base of the neck when the shirt photo (and the earlier autopsy photo) clearly show the bullet wound to his back was well below the point shown in the "Professional" Drawing

No one could confuse this misinformation with a drawing that was professional, and based on another presentation where Arlen Specter says in a letter that he thought it was a mistake not to include the original photographs, I have to conclude "someone" else was pushing for this misinformation to be shown.

It should be clear to almost anyone now who has followed ths thread that the single bullet theory is DOA now that we have another nail in it's coffin. We have a differnent theory explaining the wounds to John Connally, specifically he was hit in the leg at about Z=222 with a bullet fragment, he turned in his seat and looked over his right shoulder, then as he is turning to look over his left shoulder JFK is hit in the head at Z=313 followed by the gunman in the TSBD firing at JFK's head, he misses JFK's head as JFK was knocked out of the way as we see in the Zapruder frames after Z=313, and the bullet instead hits Connally in the back at Z=325, driving him forward, his head collapses, and his wife Nellie pulls John over into her lap.

It should be clearer to you now that the Z=325 shot to Connally's back has been shown to be a real possiblility. But since I don't think you even believe it is a credible theory yet, I'll continue on answering the rest of your questions later.

I wouldn't consider the Z=325 scenario of John Connally being shot in the back proven until all the other wounds are explained, how the shots occurred, how the bullet hole in the front windshield (fired from the front)(etc. etc.....) actually happened.

You are witnessing (the beginning) of the destruction of the biggest lie in history, THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY.

303 posted on 10/29/2006 6:57:01 AM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't und<)
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To: BILL_C
Still doing autopsied on clothing, I see. When are you finally going to face facts you don't have any idea what you typing.

The fun thing is the lurkers can see right through your arguments.

The bullet hole was 14 CM. from the Mastoid Process. That translates to five and a half inches from the bony protrusion behind the ear. Maybe Kennedy should have left his jacket and shirt home and he wouldn't have ever been shot according to your "arguments".
304 posted on 10/29/2006 7:16:34 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Still doing autopsied on clothing, I see. When are you finally going to face facts you don't have any idea what you typing. The fun thing is the lurkers can see right through your arguments.

I really get the impression that you haven't read the post, and if you have, you don't understand the point. This is not an attempt to prove anything with bullet wound location or any other well known factor that's been around in the Shooting Description of John Connally. The scenario of John Connally being shot in the back at Z=325 was ruled out because the bullet could NOT have hit Connally's left leg at that time. In the scenario where Connally is shot first in the left leg at Z=220 followed by the shot to his back, this constraint is removed.

This instead is the first analysis of two competing scenarios, the Single Bullet Theory vs. Connally shot twice. As Dale Meyer said, "This thing only happened one way."

For the first time, there is a realistic alternative to the single bullet theory, a scenario that has John Connally wounded in his left leg by the shot at around Z=220 and followed by a shot to Connally's back at Z=325, approximately 5 seconds after the wound to Connally's left leg and 0.7 seconds after the fatal shot to JFK's head.

In Reader's Digest terms, the gunman behind the limo in the TSBD aimed at JFK's head at Z=313 where of course the fatal shot was fired, but JFK as can be clearly seen is knocked back to his left; the bullet misses JFK's head and hits Connally in the back. Pretty simple and is finally consistent with what many of the witnesses said.

305 posted on 10/29/2006 12:01:46 PM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't und<)
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To: BILL_C
How on earth do you shoot someone in the thigh inside a limosine without shooting him in the back? Especially since they are on a jump seat which is lower and closer to the front seat. helicopter? someone hiding in trees? Alien spaceship?Explain the source of the shot such as where the shooter located.
306 posted on 10/29/2006 12:25:18 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5
How on earth do you shoot someone in the thigh inside a limosine without shooting him in the back? Especially since they are on a jump seat which is lower and closer to the front seat. helicopter? someone hiding in trees? Alien spaceship?Explain the source of the shot such as where the shooter located.

There were three bullet fragments found under Nellie Connally's seat (CE840 if my memory is correct). Let's look at the Warren Commission scenario:

Shot over limo: most consider this shot #1, could NOT have put the bullet fragments under her seat (although I can theorize a way that's never been documented before that I'm aware of).

Shot#2, Warren; The single bullet. Found intact at Parkland on a stretcher. It could not (for arguement sake, let say it probably didn't) have supplied all the mass for the left inside thigh wound on his left leg, the fragments left in Connally right wrist, the three fragments under Nellies seat.... It is a problem thinking these bullet fragments came from shot #2.

Shot #3, Warren: The bullet hit JFK in the back of his head, exited on right side as seen in the Zapruder Film. It's hard to see how bullet fragments under Nellies seat from the JFK head shot would have come from shot #3. They didn't go that way, plus there were fragments toward the front seat of the limo.

Z=325 scenario: In the shot to JKF's back, IF we believe the autopsy comments made by the FBI agent that Dr. Humme said, No point of exit, (& no bullet found) (I linked the clip to O'Neal saying that earlier, post 309, <"FBI agent describes autopsy with probe and no point of exit"> ), then something took the energy from that bullet, maybe a branch? If the shot hit a branch fired from the TSBD, then fragments in the car from that shot are a real possibility including the ones under Nellie Connally's seat and the one that hit Connally in the left leg. At Z=225 or so, we see Connally react to a something, and everybody thinks he's been shot then. I think he's reacting to a shot to ONLY his left leg. Look at the Zapruder film and watch him turn and look (slight left) and then turn around in his seat to look over his right shoulder. CE840, three bullet fragments under Nellie Connally's seat, with JOhn Connally's left leg only a foot or two to the right of where these fragments were found. Did Connally have his leg straight forward, or was it turned inside toward the left as he was turning and waving earlier. IF his left leg was turned toward Nellie Connally's seat, then it would (could) have been in a position to have been hit by a bullet fragment from a shot from the TSBD. If you analyze the 5 shots that Dr. Thomas docmented in his "ECHO CORRELATION..." paper, the first grouping of three shots had two which had to have been fired from the TSBD.

Both of the possible scenarios, The Single Bullet Theory and the Z=325 shot to Connally's back MUST explain the bullet fragments found in the car. When I saw Dr. Wecht last year, one of his questions concerned other bullet fragments that have never been addressed adequately but are somtimes metioned on later TV documentaries. It's one of the reasons that one well know JFK writer I've talked to thinks there may have been more than 5 shots. As far as the Dictabelt sounds being written off by the government, not so fast. There is compelling evidence on both sides that each side is right, but as we know, only one side will win the argument. I personally think it's valid because I'm quite sure that other evidence is clear that the last two shots were BANG-BANG, just like the Dictabelt shows.

Thanks for your comments

307 posted on 10/30/2006 5:11:15 AM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history are bound to repeat them!)
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To: BILL_C; Shooter 2.5
I would like for us to evaluate each of those theories against agreed upon observations. The first one I'd like to examine in detail is the entry point on JFK's back and the exit point on his neck.

I see that you included one of Dale Meyer's drawings from his animation on the entry point to his back to the exit point on his neck. I'd like you to do a similar experiment to what I've done. Take and measure 4 inches below the top of your collar slightly to the right of your spinal chord and mark that point ... - BILL_C, Post 286

__________________________

The back wound was four and a quarter inches downward from the Mastoid Process. NOT FROM THE COLLAR OF THE JACKET! - Shooter 2.5, Post 296

BILL_C, do you agree with the following two observations?

1) The bullet hole in the President's shirt is four inches below the collar (based on photographs and measurements of shirt).

2) The bullet hole in Pres. Kennedy's back is 14 cm below the right mastoid process (based on photographs and measurements of the President's back wound). Note: The mastoid process is that boney bump behind your ear, about level with the tip of your ear lobe.

308 posted on 10/30/2006 9:04:52 AM PST by Tares
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To: BILL_C

pinf gor later


309 posted on 10/30/2006 9:57:02 AM PST by Fudd
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To: BILL_C
I've shown this scenario to hundreds of people the last few years and "Obvious" is the word I would use for many reactions. But, I have had some who simply refuse to believe that our goverment would do this.

My uncle Dennis was in Dallas that day, and as a long-serving federal government employee, he had no trouble at all believing that there were those in government who would do such a thing.

It did not, however, keep him from cashing his retirement checks from the FedGov, however. Neither did it keep him from discussing the matter with family members, usually at Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

310 posted on 10/30/2006 12:20:37 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: JoeGar
One of our NC Senators participated in the 1978 House Subcommittee on Assassinations investigation. He told me, "It looks to me like Castro got to Kennedy before Kennedy got to Castro." If that is the case, we won't hear the truth until after Castro dies.

We will never, NEVER hear the truth from the Castro-lovers in our mass media, particularly those whose careers were advanced by their presence as witnesses/reporters that day.

For an example, check out Dan Rather's description of the events of that day in his autobiography, The Camera Never Blinks.


311 posted on 10/30/2006 12:24:21 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: Shooter 2.5
How on earth do you shoot someone in the thigh inside a limosine without shooting him in the back? Especially since they are on a jump seat which is lower and closer to the front seat. helicopter? someone hiding in trees? Alien spaceship?Explain the source of the shot such as where the shooter located.

Are there any tall buildings in the area? Or largish overpasses that would allow a shooter to adjust the angle at which he engaged a vehicular-mounted target?


312 posted on 10/30/2006 12:30:37 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: Shooter 2.5
I think I gave you enough time to answer such a simple question. The question was "what made the Carcano so unusual?" That should have been an easy answer and wouldn't have taken but a minute for a self described Carcano expert. Heck, I have never even handled one let alone go around telling people I owned one.

The answer is the Carcano had a split receiver bridge. ... .

That is neither the *only* answer as to what makes Carcano C 2766 unusual, either among turnbolt rifles in general, nor among most Italian military rifles, nor the most important/related answer.

And Carcanos are not the only rifles that fire the 6.5x52 cartridge, some using the 160-grain/.268" diameter bullet- and some not.

313 posted on 10/30/2006 12:37:50 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: The KG9 Kid
Why aren't you asking where he got the ammo for his pistol that he killed Officer Tippet with?

Even better: ask about the fourempty cartridge cases found at the scene of the Tippit shooting, the bullets recovered from J.D. Tippit's body, and those found in Oswald's revolver, S&W Victory Model S/N V510210, when he was arrested at the Texas Theater.

Oh: and don't forget to ask about the second revolver [S&W 893265] recovered by the Dallas P.D. that day- or what it was loaded with.

*more here*

Of the four expended cartridge cases found at the scene of the Tippit murder, two were of Western Cartridge Co. manufacture, two of Remington-Peters. The autopsy of Tippit, however, revealed three bullets of Western Cartridge Co. Manufacture and one of Remington-Peters. Can the panel formulate an opinion about this discrepancy? Is it possible to determine which bullet came from each particualr cartridge case?

(203) The two expended .38 special caliber cartridge cases (CE 574--Q75 and Q76) of Western Cartridge Co. manufacture and three of the recovered .38 special caliber copper-coated (Lubaloy) lead bullets (CE 602, CE 603, and CE 605) are components of Western Cartridge Co. ammunition. The two expended Remington-Peters cartridge cases (CE 594--Q74 and Q77) and the recovered .38 special caliber lead bullet (CE 604) are components of Remington-Peters Co. ammunition.

(204) The panel concluded that they were all components of factory loaded ammunition. Visual and microscopical examination of the recovered cartridge cases revealed no evidence of reloading. It is logically assumed that cases and bullets of the same manufacture could have originated from the recovered cartridge cases and bullets, but the panel can render no opinion beyond this. There is no known scientific procedure that can conclusively relate a fired bullet, to an expended cartridge case.

(205) The panel offers two possible explanations for the discrepancy:

One Western Cartridge case was not recovered or is missing, and one Remington-Peters lead bullet missed Officer Tippit and also was not recovered.

One Western Cartridge case was not recovered or is missing, and one fired Remington-Peters cartridge case was in the revolver prior to the Tippit shooting.
[[[DOC1 - START]]]

(FBI 62-109060-485)

URGENT 11-29-63 8-58 AM CST EEA
TO DIRECTOR AND SAC, BOSTON
FROM SAC, DALLAS /89-43/ 1-P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY,
NOVEMBER TWENTYTWO,
LAST, DALLAS, TEXAS

FOR THE INFORMATION OF BOSTON OFFICE ON THE MORNING OF NOVEMBER TWENTYTHREE, LAST, A SNUB NOSE THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND AT APPROXIAMTELY SEVEN THIRTY AM., IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY TOOK PLACE.

BOSTON IS REQUESTED TO CONTACT SMITH AND WESSON AT SPRING- FIELD, MASS., AND TRACE OWNERSHIP OF THIS WEAPON.

END ACK IN ORDbr 10-02 AM OK FBI WA LA
BS OK FBI BS 10-01 AM NCP
TU CLEAR

[[[DOC1 - END


DOC2 - START ]]

(FBI 62-109060-858)

URGENT 11-30-63 3-27 PM CST DM TO DIRECTOR, /62-109060/42-24016 AND SAC, DALLAS FROM SAC, SPRINGFIELD /89-23/

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY AFO. NSPI JACK L. RUBY, AKA., JACK RUBENSTEIN, JACK LEON RUBY. LEE HARVEY OSWALD DASH VICTEM, DECEASED. CR.

RE PHILADELPHIA TEL NOVEMBER TWENTYNINE LAST.

ON NOVEMBER 30 INSTANT, GEORGE L. MAYERNICK, DEPUTY SHERIFF, AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I, ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD IN THE FILES OF AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN V FIVE ONE TWO ONE ZERO. MAYERNICK ALSO ADVISED THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE IN FILES OF AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I.

NO FD THREE ZERO TWO BEING SUBMITTED, UAC. COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA. P.

END AND ACK BOTH STS PLS
WA 4-30 PM OK FBI WA RDR
DL EAEP PM OK FBI DL WD 3-30 P
VVM
CC-MR ROSEN


[[[DOC2 - END

DOC3 - START]]]

(FBI - 62-109060-638)

URGENT 11-29-63 11-21 PM EST JTA
TO DIRECTOR AND SACS, DALLAS, SPRINGFIELD AND BOSTON
FROM SAC, PHILADELPHIA /157-916/ 1 P

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, ELEVEN
TWENTYTWO SIXTYTHREE, DALLAS, TEXAS.

RE BOSTON TELETYPES INSTANT, TWELVE THIRTY TWO PM AND SIX TEN PM AND PH TELETYPE TO BUREAU, DALLAS AND SPRINGFIELD INSTANT FIVE FORTYEIGHT PM.

BOSTON ADVISES RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS. SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE, HARTFORD, CONN. AND RECORDS WERE SHIPPED TO LETTERKENNY ORDNANCE, PHILADELPHIA, PA., IN NINETEEN FIFTY.

RE PH TELETYPE SHOWS THESE RECORDS SENT COMMANDING GENERAL, US ARMY WEAPONS COMMAND, ROCK ISLAND, ILL, FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA.

SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON.

END ACK
WA 11-28 PM OK FBI WA ELR

SI 10-27 PM CST OK FBI SI WJA
BS 10-28 PM OK FBI BS RCS

[[[DOC3 - END]]]

314 posted on 10/30/2006 1:03:43 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: archy

Yes Archy, there is a tall buiding at Dealy Plaza. It has a sixth floor.

You should know something about trajectories. There isn't any other explanation except three shots were involved in killing Kennedy. They all came from the sixth floor of the Depository.


315 posted on 10/30/2006 3:00:49 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Yes Archy, there is a tall buiding at Dealy Plaza. It has a sixth floor.

Why, then, did ATF [then called AT&TU] Special Agent [Frank Ellsworth claim that he was present when the *Oswald Carcano* was found on the fourth or fifth floor of the Depository?

Oh, and why were there SEVEN ATF agents stationed around the School Book building....

per the book Oswald Talked, Ray and Mary LaFontaine accept the "6th floor Mauser" story, and then up the ante by concluding that two rifles were found in the Depository: a Mauser on the 6th floor, and a Mannlicher-Carcano on the 4th or 5th floor. Their sole source of the "lower floor" theory is a single witness. According to the La Fontaines:

Former AFT agent Frank Ellsworth, who participated in a second search of the book depository conducted after 1:30 p.m. on November 22, 1963, according to a Secret Service document, confirms that the Mannlicher-Carcano was found by a DPD detective on the fourth or fifth floor of the building, "not on the same floor as the cartridges." He adds: "I remember we talked about it, and figured that he must have run out from the stairwell and dropped it as he was running downstairs." (p. 374)

According to Dallas Police records no plainclothes detectives were assigned to the knoll area in Dealey Plaza.6 But if there, the question begs to be asked: "Why would they identify themselves as Secret Service?" Were they behind the fence on the grassy knoll? Not officially.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Bureau (A&TT) · Frank Ellsworth

"...[FBI Agent James] Hosty told the [House] Select Committee that at the time of the assassination 'Frank' Ellsworth...had indicated that he had been in the grassy knoll area and for some reason identified himself as a Secret Service Agent.' 8 Ellsworth, deposed by the Committee, denied Hosty's allegation. We know, however, that he was in the immediate area.9 Interestingly, he and seven other ATF agents were among the first law enforcement personnel of any description to reach the sixth floor of the TSBD. If Ellsworth was in the vicinity, it remains to be asked how Hosty knew about it. (Peter Dale Scott, "Deep Politics," pg. 274)

"In 1963, if you would have asked me if I was a Secret Service agent, I most likely would have answered yes-our roles overlapped that much." (Frank Ellsworth to author Gus Russo in 1994, "Live By The Sword," pg. 473)10

Is Ellsworth admitting he is the knoll agent? If so, then why did he deny it to the HSCA? Reflecting on the timing of Officer Smith seeing the knoll agent, if Ellsworth left his fellow agents and drifted over to the knoll area immediately after the shooting he may have been the man Smith saw. According to testimony, this didn't happen.

CO-2-34,030

U.S. SECRET SERVICE
TO: Chief - Attn. Inspr. Kelly
FROM: SAIC Sorrels, Dallas (initialed)
SUBJECT: Report as to A&TT Investigators searching Texas School Book Depository Bldg., Dallas, TX, after assassination of President Kennedy.

There is enclosed a memorandum dated Jan. 14, 1964, submitted by Mr. Carl R. Booth, Jr. Supervisor in Charge, Alcohol and Tobacco Tax, Dallas, TX, regarding their Special Investigators and others having assisted in search of the Texas School Book Depository Building after assassination of President Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963. A copy of this memorandum is being retained in Dallas office.

ATTACHMENT - Memo & cc.

-=-=-

316 posted on 10/30/2006 3:43:39 PM PST by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: archy
"he had no trouble at all believing that there were those in government who would do such a thing.

Neither did it keep him from discussing the matter with family members, usually at Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

I'm curious if your Uncle ever mentioned that he thought it was LBJ, especially since Jack Ruby said it went right to the top (before he suddenly came down with cancer and died even after he had been granted a new trial)?

317 posted on 10/30/2006 4:24:22 PM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history are bound to repeat them!)
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To: archy

Archy, forget about what a bunch of kooks said. There are pictures of the Carcano behind the boxes and with a picture of the officers near the boxes. They even wrote the procedure before they unloaded the fourth round. The location of the boxes and Carcano was on the sixth floor and I forgot which corner. I think it was on the Northwest corner.

One unfortunate officer incorrectly identified it as a Mauser. Big deal.


318 posted on 10/30/2006 6:49:41 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: The KG9 Kid


Hey Kid.. Remember this thread? -- You never did get around to disputing the "magic bullet" timeline established at post #194...


Johnson had JFK Killed: new book
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987270/posts?page=194

Compiled by I. Marc Carlson.

This page was last edited on 30 March 2003

Frame # Event
140 The car turns on to Elm street.
145 [Some people interpret the first shot as having been fired at this point]
151-153 [Some people interpret the first shot as having been fired at this point]
154-155 Kennedy turns his head very rapidly from left to right.
158-160 Zapruder jiggled his camera. [Numerous "Ear-witnesses" recall the first shot being about this point, when the car has just turned the corner onto Elm Street]
160 The little girl who is running next to the Car begins to turn to her right.
162 The little girl has stopped running. Kennedy stops waving. Connally turns his head sharply to the right.
??? James Tague is struck by a piece of flying cement while standing under the end of the triple by-pass. [along a straight line, through the oak tree and the School Book Depository window. A mark in the cement along that line revealed traces of lead and antimony, suggesting that the round had lost its copper jacket -- which can happen when striking a tree branch]
167-210 Foliage blocks a School Book Depository sniper's view of Kennedy (with a small break at 186), according to reconstructions (2.3 seconds). Branches had given partial visual cover for some time before that.
187 (1.5 seconds after frame 160) The little girl has stopped and is staring at the SBD. Kennedy starts waving again. Mrs. Kennedy is looking around.
189-197 Zapruder jiggles his camera again.
188-191(190) [House Select Committee suggests that this is the point at which Kennedy was hit. This is the traditionally held time for that the second shot hit him. Many people believe that this shot was a front shot from a smaller weapon than the 6.5 mm Carcano]
200 No one in the car appears hurt. Kennedy is waving to the crowd with his right hand.
200-224 Zapruder's view of Kennedy is blocked by a highway sign. Even during this time, Kennedy's hand can still be seen over the sign.
202 Phillip Willis's photograph showing Zapruder was shot here.
207 Witness Howard Brennan turns abruptly to the right.
210 As Kennedy becomes visible from the foliage, this is the first opportunity that an SBD sniper would have a chance to fire.
220-228 Zapruder jiggles his camera.
223-224 Probable time that Kennedy was first hit. [At this point, the positions of the two men, Kennedy's leaning slightly forward, and the much taller Connally twisted to the right, with his hand in front of him, holding his hat at lower chest level, make it possible for a single bullet to enter Kennedy's back, pass through his lower throat, into Connally's right back, glance downward off a rib, exit under his right nipple, and enter his left thigh coming to rest, drained of energy, just below the skin.]
224 The right front lapel on Connally's suit flips up as the bullet passed through his chest.
225 Kennedy becomes visible to Zapruder again, his right arm is resting on the edge of the car, having just relaxed from waving. Connally shows no obvious effects.
226 Kennedy is clearly raising his right arm. Conally becomes rigid, and changed his expression [The House Select Committee suggests that this is the point at which Connally was hit based on his facial features and body position.]
227 Kennedy's arm jerks off the car, clearly reacting to the throat shot [This is a clear case of "Thorburn's Position", as his body reacts to the spinal damage caused by the hydrostatic shock of the bullet passing so close to the spine in 223-4. This is supported by the fact that his arms are locked into position until 313] (1/10-2/10 of a second after 223-4) Connally's hat (held in his right hand) begins to move in a reflex response to his radius bone being broken)
228 Kennedy's torso pitches forward suddenly (to 231)
229 Connally's hat drops to its original position.
229-233 Mrs. Connally claimed her husband was shot about this time.
231-234 Connally told the Warren Commission that this was when he remembered being hit.
231 Kennedy stops moving forward.
234 Connally later determines it was at this point. [This is likely when Connally tried to take his next regular breath, the lung punctured only 2/3s of a second before collapsed, and making him feel like he'd just been hit; or, he IS hit at this point and his lung collapses at this point].
235 Connally's mouth opens wide and his body begins to react to the collapsed lung, drawing him down and to the right.
255 Estimated point at which Ike Altgens' picture is shot [showing what appears to be Oswald in the SBD doorway, and an open window in the second floor Dal-Tex broom closet. It also appears to show the crack in the windshield left by bullet fragments (see 337) ].
309?- Zapruder jiggles his camera.
312 Kennedy's head pitches forward suddenly.
313 The 161.2 grain slug, travelling at 2,100 feet per second smacks into the right occipital area of Kennedy's head, shattering the occipital bone and generating tremendous force in the flesh of the brain. The upper right side of his head explodes, blowing brains and bit of bone in an expanding pink cloud. The pieces of the parietal and temporal sections of his skull remain attached by skin, and so fall back into place, creating the appearance of an intact skull. His head lurches back to the left (8.0-8.4 seconds after the first shot) as his body stiffens suddenly from the massive neurological damage, and possibly aggravated by his back brace, or, if you wish, studies have also shown that the head flying back and to the left is also possible because of the matter ejected by the right side of his head exploding in a simple Newtonian happening. The film clearly shows the back of the head to be clean.
by 320 The two officers riding (to the left?) behind the car are splattered with bood and brains, after driving up to and passing through the cloud blown out of the President. (allegedly, a section of Kennedy's right occipital bone was found by Billy Harper, some 35 feet to the left and rear of the impact point
321 Kennedy is slumped to his left, the right parietal area of his skull completely exposed.
337 Kennedy is sliding into Mrs. Kennedy's lap, much of the flesh and bone of his skull hanging hinged by the skin. Two large bullet fragments were found in the car (44.6 and 21.0 grains = 65.6 grains) after they dented some chrome and damaged the windshield, and a "pristine" (Magic) bullet at the hospital (158.6 grains). The average weight of a 6.5 mm Carcano bullet is 161.2 grains. The six fragments removed from Connally would have weighed not more than 1.5 grains all together.


______________________________________

--- Carlsens timeline above, which supports the Reports 'single bullet timeline'---

1) Aim, fire, -- Frame 226 shows JFK throat hit.

2) Cycle action, aim, fire second round. Miss.

3) Cycle action, aim, fire third round. -- Frame 313 shows head hit on JFK.

Maximum 103 frames, - 5.48 seconds, - to aim & fire three shots with a rifle that takes 2.3 seconds to cycle the action.

Show me an expert able to convincingly duplicate the feat without fudging, much less a bumbling clown like Oswald.

The case is far from 'closed'.
- 194 tpaine -




319 posted on 10/30/2006 8:15:37 PM PST by tpaine
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To: archy
"... Oh, and why were there SEVEN ATF agents stationed around the School Book building...."

Maybe because they were having their first meeting about BATF's five year plan to murder Bobby Kennedy in Los Angeles which would be fundamental in creating their new bureau called 'ATF' in 1968?

ATF didn't exist in 1963. It was just a revenue office in the Treasury Department at that time.

320 posted on 10/30/2006 9:48:35 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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